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SCO Finally Answers Novell's Motion to Dismiss
Friday, October 08 2004 @ 05:57 PM EDT

SCO has finally filed its Memorandum in Opposition to Novell's Motion to Dismiss. There is also on Pacer a Stipulation, giving Novell until November 8 to reply and the Order granting the Stipulation. This is an overlong memo, so there is also an Order granting SCO's Ex Parte Motion for Leave to File an Overlength Memorandum.

The document that matters is the Memorandum in Opposition.

Novell filed its second motion to dismiss, on the basis that Judge Dale Kimball's ruling on the first motion demonstrated that Novell couldn't have been acting with malice as a matter of law, malice being a necessary element in a slander of title action, and that it had a privilege to speak because SCO spoke publicly about it first. Since the judge himself wrote that Novell seemed to have the stronger argument as to whether the copyrights transferred to SCO or not, writing "the agreements raise substantial doubt as to whether the [Asset Purchase Agreement] as amended by Amendment No. 2 qualifies as a Section 204(a) writing," and "Novell has raised persuasive arguments as to whether a sufficient writing exists and whether there was any intent to transfer copyrights under the [Asset Purchase Agreement] as amended or under a separate agreement," on what basis could Novell be accused of malice for thinking exactly the same thing the judge is thinking?

SCO's answer is to say that the same order said that the issue of ownership would more properly be handled in a summary judgment motion or at trial, not in a motion to dismiss, and that he couldn't conclude that SCO could present *no* set of facts to prove its claim.

That's not really an answer, to my mind. What Novell is saying is, put all that to the side. Whoever owns the copyrights is not the question before us at this juncture. The question is, is Novell guilty of slander of title? That's the accusation, and since the judge thought the Asset Purchase Agreement and Amendment No. 2 "are ambiguous and arguably support Novelll's claims of ownership", that negates any accusation of slander of title, because to prove slander of title, you must prove the defendant acted with malice, in other words, that it knew its public statements were false. Here is how Novell put it in their Motion to Dismiss:

"Malice is a necessary element in any action for slander of title. See First Sec. Bank, N.A. v. Banberry Crossing, 780 P.2d 1253, 1257 (Utah 1989) ('A published false statement. . . does not constitute slander of title without the element of malice.'). As this Court recognized in its June 9 Order, 'in order for [a] statement regarding copyright ownership to be malicious, it would have to be knowingly false.' (Order at 5 (citing First Sec. Bank, 780 P.2d at 1257).) "

How can SCO prove that malice element, even if Novell is wrong ultimately about copyright ownership, when even the judge thinks they have the better case? They have to prove that Novell made its statements while knowing they were materially false. Where is the malice if you truly believe, as Novell says it did, that you are the copyright holder? Whether in time, in a trial, you might find out differently doesn't matter. There is no malice if you acted in good faith. Besides, the judge's order, Novell says, precludes a finding of malice. They list in their Motion to Dismiss some of what he found:

"In its June 9 Order, this Court stated:

  • 'It is undisputed that the [Asset Purchase Agreement] did not transfer any copyrights.' (Order at 8.)
  • 'Amendment No. 2 ... does not constitute a transfer of copyrights on its own.' (Id.)
  • 'There is enough ambiguity in the language of Amendment No. 2 that ... it is questionable whether [it] was meant to convey the required copyrights or whether the parties contemplated a separate writing to actually transfer the copyrights after the 'required' copyrights were identified.' (Id. at 9-10.)
  • 'The agreements raise substantial doubt as to whether the [Asset Purchase Agreement] as amended by Amendment No. 2 qualifies as a Section 204(a) writing.' (Id. at 10.)
  • 'Novell has raised persuasive arguments as to whether a sufficient writing exists and whether there was any intent to transfer copyrights under the [Asset Purchase Agreement] as amended or under a separate agreement.' (Id. at 15.)

"The sum of these findings is that Novell's claims of ownership to the UNIX copyrights have merit even when weighed against the most persuasive arguments SCO could advance on its behalf. Novell's public assertion of such claims cannot represent the sort of knowing falsehood sufficient to constitute malice. Because this Court has indicated that Novell has meritorious legal arguments, it has made a sufficient determination to reject any claim that Novell lacked a good-faith basis to make its rival claim to the UNIX copyrights. See, e.g., Timpanogos Highlands, Inc. v. Harper, 544 P.2d 481, 486 (Utah 1975) ('[Where a party] had sufficient basis for believing that it had rights under the contract . . . there is no foundation upon which it could be found that it willfully and knowingly recorded a false or fraudulent instrument for the purpose of slandering the defendants' title.').

"Indeed, SCO itself has asserted likewise when faced with a similar accusation made against it in other proceedings. On August 4, 2003, Red Hat filed a complaint in the United States District Court for the District of Delaware alleging, inter alia, that SCO committed trade libel and disparagement by publicly asserting an ownership interest in certain intellectual property. SCO moved to dismiss this count, arguing that it had a good-faith basis to make its ownership claims because 'bad faith is not supported when the information is objectively accurate' and that inquiry into any subjective motivation SCO might have had was unnecessary. (Melaugh Decl. Ex. G at 20, quoting Mikohn Gaming Corp. v. Acres Gaming, Inc., 165 F.3d 891, 897 (Fed. Cir. 1998).)"

SCO's answer is to claim that it's too early in the case to even decide falsity. It wasn't too early in Red Hat, but it's too early in Novell. That's not, they say, a matter that can be resolved in a motion to dismiss. Of course, that doesn't prevent them from going on and on about the facts and how they "prove" SCO's claims are meritorious, but they claim they are providing the arguments just to "provide context". The idea may be that this way, if the judge rules in SCO's favor on this motion, say on a technicality, then it will look like he bought their contextual arguments. But in fact, whatever is in there for "context" isn't going to be what he rules on at this time. Obviously, they hope to change his mind about how he views who probably owns the copyrights, and it's natural they would want to try to do that.

You'll see the technique in full flower in footnote 3, where SCO tries to persuade the judge once again that the evidence that SCO got the copyrights is enough to comply with Section 204 of the Copyright Act. Judge Kimball has already indicated he thinks otherwise, but they have at it again. This time, their argument appears to be that they had some kind of oral agreement with Novell. The later documents merely confirmed the oral agreement by putting it in writing, and they cite some cases that hold that would be enough. That may be the case, the oral agreement. But SCO's problem is that some observers believe the later writing explicitly excluded copyrights.

SCO moves on to claim that the judge's ruling held that SCO's allegations are sufficient to state a claim. Again, they are not acknowledging the new point Novell has made. Maybe it was sufficient before Judge Kimball issued his ruling. Novell's position is that the ruling shifted the balance around, and that now they would like a ruling based on the new facts.

SCO replies that Novell waived its right to raise those arguments under Fed.R.Civ.P. 12(g), which they say precludes a defendant from raising in a second motion to dismiss arguments it could have raised in its first motion. Novell already brought a motion to dismiss, with a defense of failure to state a claim. Now they are bringing a second version of a defense of failure to state a claim, but that's against the rules. Their position is that the court's ruling "does not constitute new matter in the Amended Complaint" so, they argue, Novell should file an Answer to the Complaint, not a motion to dismiss.

They are standing on a dime, the argument being that the statute says you can only bring new matter into a second motion to dismiss, and there is no new matter in SCO's Amended Complaint, which would have given Novell a second fresh opportunity. But I think it's the wrong dime, because it is a new fact -- the judge's order -- that obviously Novell didn't have when it filed the first motion. They can hardly be faulted for failure to claim something that had not happened at the time of their first filing.

SCO even quotes from the statute, which clearly says you can assert only those defenses "as were not available at the time of his response to the initial pleading." Obviously, Novell didn't have Judge Kimball's ruling available at the time of filing their first motion to dismiss. It's one of those nicey-nice legal arguments that sometimes work and causes the non-legal world when they see it working to decide they hate lawyers. Here it seems so unlikely to succeed, I can't help but wonder if SCO raises it seriously. I'm not a lawyer, of course, so it's always possible I'm just missing something, but for sure if it was my assignment to read this document and highlight for my boss the strengths and weaknesses, I'd list this in the weak column.

Anyway, SCO says, for a motion to dismiss, all it needs to do is "aver malice," properly plead it, imply it, not prove it. And they surely have averred it by saying Novell made its public statements "intentionally", "maliciously" and "with utter disregard for the truthfulness thereof". This is a too-cute-for-words technical argument. And what they are after is a ruling that it's too soon for a ruling on whether or not Novell had a malicious intent, that a summary judgment proceeding would be the earliest opportunity Novell could make use of and that this question of Novell's state of mind really belongs in a trial, not in a motion to dismiss, because it's a fact in dispute, at best. That would seem to depend on whether the judge here agrees with Novell that his order precludes a finding of malice as a matter of law. Malice, SCO quotes from a case, may be implied "where a party knowingly and wrongfully records or publishes something untrue or spurious or which gives a false or misleading impression adverse to one's title under circumstances that it should reasonably foresee might result in damage to the owner of the property."

Again, no matter how loose the pleading standard may be in Utah, there is still that little word "knowingly". Where in this fact pattern do they see that? Yet, in footnote 13, they make the claim that since they have accused Novell of making a claim of ownership with knowledge of the falseness of their claim, the judge has to infer ill will. Yipes. In what dictatorship would that be the law? Maybe in the Salem witch trials, where an accusation more or less meant you had to be guilty. I certainly hope that isn't the law here and now.

Anyway, SCO says, it's their motion, not ours, and that means you have to resolve all questions -- including Novell's state of mind and their maliciousness or lack thereof -- in SCO's favor. Then they make the following argument:

"Although the legal plausibility of a party's argument for ownership may be relevant (if only indirectly) to whether that party in fact possessed a 'good-faith belief' in its public statements of ownership, such plausibility does not even constitute direct evidence of the party's 'good faith,' let alone resolve the question."

They seem to be saying that there can be no valid motion to dismiss based on good faith. I believe they want the case to continue, so they can do discovery, and they want the judge to rule that even if Novell had a good-faith belief its statements were correct and accurate, SCO should be allowed to bring a slander of title action and force them to prove it at a trial later. Much later. So, any entity can bring implausible claims of slander of title, and the vicitim, despite having a good-faith basis for believing it is the owner of the copyrights, must endure the agony and expense of a full trial before it can escape the lawsuit's clutches? That would indeed be SCO's perfect world.

Then SCO brings up the press release again, the one Kimball already said could be interpreted differently than SCO does. That doesn't seem like a powerful argument, under those circumstances. SCO persists in claiming that Novell in that press release made an "admission" that Novell does not own the copyrights. They already said that the first time, and Judge Kimball didn't buy it. But they make it again. And since they made that "admission", saying that they owned the copyrights without first having reviewed all the documents and making sure, SCO argues, there's your malice, Your Honor, not making sure. They also say something else. They claim that the press release constitutes an admission regarding the relevance of Amendment No. 2 on the question of copyright ownership. That's a mighty big leap, and I'm sure Novell will have something to say about that. I've always hoped someone thought to have that document examined as to authenticity. It does seem a bit unusual that Novell appears to have had absolutely no awareness of such a document existing until SCO discovered it in a file cabinet.

SCO argues that because Novell could find no Utah case regarding their privilege to answer the public claims SCO was making to the media, that there is no such privilege in Utah:

"The absence of any such case law appears to reflect the elements of the claim under Utah law, under which SCO must prove malice and by doing so would preclude any privilege. Novell in fact concedes that its malice would overcome any applicable privilege. See Novell Mem. at 15-16. SCO's plainly sufficient allegations of malice thus preclude dismissal of SCO's claims on the basis of any asserted privilege."

The problem with this argument, aside from the fact that not all observers may agree that SCO's claim of malice is sufficient, is that just because there is no case ruling on a certain point before you arrive at court, it doesn't mean there can't be a first time. That's the way the system works. If you are the first, you get to be the first. They don't tell you that you can't be heard because you are the first. Here is what Novell said in its Motion to Dismiss:

"What we really have here—and what the Court can take cognizance of even on a motion to dismiss—is a legal issue of considerable industry and public interest. The dispute is public because SCO made it so, bringing suit against IBM and other parties, threatening 1,500 major corporate users of Linux with a copyright claim, and making broad accusations in the press.

"Under these circumstances, the law permits Novell to assert its 'rival claim' and to share its legal position with interested parties without facing the chilling threat of litigation. The only way SCO can overcome such a privilege, even on a motion to dismiss, is to adequately plead that Novell acted with the requisite level of malice. But no pleading can be sustained when the Court (by its own analysis and ruling) has before it the existence of a genuine property dispute in which the alleged slanderer is simply asserting its claim to the disputed property. Nor can SCO cure these flaws in its claim by amendment. It is therefore appropriate, as a matter of law, to dismiss SCO's Amended Complaint with prejudice."

Is SCO seriously arguing that they had the right to speak publicly but Novell was legally bound to absolute silence, given no rights at all to defend itself? They probably are, but does that sound fair to you? That someone would write a law saying that? SCO's next shot is that Novell over-publicized its position, even if it did have a privilege to speak. They claim they can prove that in discovery and that this too is a matter that depends on evidence, so it has to go to a jury. Maybe you are discerning by now that SCO wants to make it to a jury trial.

SCO submits a Bill of Sale, which the court didn't have before it when it made its ruling back in June. The Bill of Sale says:

"In accordance with Article 1.1(a) of the Agreement, Seller, for good and valuable consideration, the receipt and sufficiency of which is hereby acknowledged, does hereby transfer, convey, sell, assign and deliver to Buyer, without recourse, representation or warranty except as otherwise expressly provided in the Agreement, all of the Assets. Excepted from the transfer of Assets pursuant to the preceding sentence are the rights reserved by Seller pursuant to that certain Technology License Agreement between Seller and Buyer dates as of December 6, 1995" Exh. 1 (emphasis added)."

Novell, of course, would say SCO has emphasized the wrong sentence, and that what needs to be underlined is the "excepted from the transfer of Assets" sentence. Anyway, the Bill of Sale just references the APA when defining what was sold. It says, in effect, "we hereby sell you whatever it was we agreed to sell you." And it references the APA, which the judge has already found wanting. SCO says the excluded assets were the copyrights to "non-Unix-related products, such as NetWare".

Novell might also point to SCO's footnote 6, the wording that the Amendment No. 2 reiterated that Novell had no "right to increase any SVRX licensee's rights to SVRX source code", no "right to grant new SVRX source code licenses", and no right to "prevent SCO from exercising its rights with respect to SVRX source code in accordance with the Agreement." But if SCO got everything, including the copyrights, why would such language even apply, be appropriate, or be needed?

SCO asks why there was any need for a "license back", if Novell retained the copyrights? It's a valid question. I believe the answer to that may have to do with the definition of "Licensed Technology" in the agreement, and that it may refer to licensed source code that belonged to third parties Novell had licensed for use in their Unix, and which it wished to guarantee it could continue to use after the sale of the business to SCO. SCO also argues that the parties behavior indicates that each thought the copyrights transferred. As one proof, they mention that SCO distributed Unix with copyright notices. However, as Groklaw pointed out in an earlier article, the copyrights continued to say Novell long after the transfer, so if the evidence to prove what the parties thought is by their behavior, what is the explanation for that? It would seem to prove Novell's position, not SCO's. If oldSCO had been told and honestly believed that they had been assigned the UNIX copyrights, why the continuing "(c) Novell"?

Then SCO trots out an ex-Novell employee, Ed Chatlos, who they say testifies that he negotiated the APA for Novell (although apparently not the later amendments, I gather), and according to his declaration, it was his understanding that all copyrights were to go to SCO. It isn't clear from this document whether he was a lawyer or on the business side, but it sounds like the latter. It says it was his responsibility to negotiate and complete the deal to sell Novell's UNIX business to SCO and that he was "the principal interface with SCO on the business negotiations for Novell".

None of his superiors told him that Novell was retaining the copyrights, he says (which indicates to me that he might not have been high enough in the chain to even have the whole story) but he thinks he likely would have known if they were not being transferred. Maybe. Maybe not. He may not have been fully informed. Nor does it seem that he was a party to the negotiations on the later amendments, or at least I don't see him saying he was.

You may have noticed in I Cringeley's story today about the Burst v. Microsoft case that Microsoft made that very argument, that what a business person negotiated didn't count. What the later lawyers drew up -- that's what counts. And that is true. That's not commenting on the case itself, because I'm not at all familiar with it. But what the lawyer drafts is what matters. Nothing said prior counts in comparison. The point of saying all this is just to point out that this ex-Novell employee may not have been in the final loop or be the last word on the subject.

Chatlos also says he thinks the Technology License Agreement was Novell licensing from SCO the use of the UNIX source code. Well, others may differ on that interpretation, as we've seen, and anyway, which UNIX source code? Novell already has told us what they believed that document was for in the May hearing:

"What did they get? Well, what they get, if you go ahead to 4.18, is a provision that says development of a merged product. And it says in the second sentence: Buyer is going to commercial use with commercially reasonable efforts to complete the merged product.

"The merged product was basically what this deal was about from Novell's standpoint. What SCO was going to do was enhance some additional kinds of UNIX, some additional UNIX flavors for special kinds of processors or non-special processors, but evolve the UNIX business, evolve UnixWare in particular, and that's the reference there to the merged product. . . .

"Here's the interesting question. We alluded to it in our reply brief. What ownership of copyrights falls out of this arrangement?

"Because SCO is developing enhancements, is writing its own code, SCO does as a matter of copyright law own the copyright rights and the rights to enforce the copyright rights in the code that it developed. There is no so-called grant back provision in this agreement that's referred to here which does have a license back to Novell. It's not at issue today, but the point is, in terms of the copyright ownership, it's not correct to say that they didn't get any copyright ownership. As a matter of copyright law and how copyright law treats derivative works, they own the code that they wrote. The code that they were merely taking from Novell and incorporating that product they don't own, and they have no need to own."

Novell seems to here be indicating that Novell wanted to guarantee it could use the merged product, including whatever SCO wrote in the future to enhance what Novell was selling.

I see a change in tone in the quoted portions of the Chatlos declaration, from paragraph 1 through 10 compared to paragraphs 11 and 12. In the former, he is talking about his firsthand experiences in the negotiations. In the latter, he is looking at and giving his opinion on some documents. It doesn't sound as if he was involved in actually drafting those documents. I don't see him saying that he helped to draft any of the documents, for that matter. But he doesn't state that he was involved in the negotiations of any document but the APA. If he had been, wouldn't SCO want him to say so? Note the strange phrasing in paragraph 9:

"It was always my understanding and intent, on behalf of Novell, that the UNIX source code and its copyrights were part of the assets SCO purchased. I do not recall anyone else ever suggesting that Novell would retain any copyright relating to UNIX, nor was I present for any discussions, general or specific, during the negotiations that contradicted my understanding of the transaction described herein. None of my superiors at Novell ever informed me that Novell was not transferring the UNIX copyrights to SCO. Likewise, I never communicated to SCO in any way that the UNIX copyrights were not being sold to SCO. Nor am I aware of any instance in which anyone from Novell ever informed SCO in any waqy that the UNIX copyrights were not being sold to SCO as part of this transaction."

Let me parody it:

"None of my bosses ever informed me that the moon was not made of blue cheese. Likewise, I never told my neighbour that the moon was not made of blue cheese."

"At dinner time, I did not observe anyone stating or acting as if the the moon was not made of blue cheese."

Can you conclude from that that neither I nor my bosses ever said the moon *was* made of blue cheese? No, you can't. It could equally well have been the case that nobody ever mentioned the composition of the moon. Or to put it another way: why does he not state in his declaration: "I told [old]SCO that the copyrights were being transferred"?

I don't see him say that. He says that it was his understanding and his intent and that he didn't say the copyrights weren't being transferred, but that's not quite the same thing. Surely, if the matter of the copyrights were being discussed and he was the chief negotiator, he would have talked to oldSCO about it. In which case he could honestly say "I told SCO they were getting the copyrights." Why can't he declare that? We have seen many such declarations in the SCO v. IBM case, where IBM found many parties to that negotiation who clearly say that the matter was discussed and IBM was told by AT&T exactly where it stood on ownership and control rights. And given the rules of copyright transfer writing, why don't the documents state it clearly?

All Novell has to do to rebut is find some oldSCO or Novell folks who were party to negotiations, the legal negotiations, for example, that Mr. Chatlos didn't participate in that contradicts what his understanding, however sincerely held, was.

Or is it perhaps the case that during the course of the negotiations the copyrights were never really discussed because that was up to the lawyers or highers up and he was really engaged in other, important but non-copyright, aspects of the deal? SCO has already alleged that the writings were merely to make formal an earlier oral agreement, which this man doesn't even mention and clearly was not a party to, in which case he might well have assumed he was selling everything, because he knew no better.

What if, just to imagine possibilities for a minute, Novell wasn't precisely sure what it owned and therefore wished to be as vague as possible, letting folks assume whatever they assumed? What if there were oral discussions nobody wanted to put in writing, because both sides knew, from the BSDi case, that ownership of UNIX copyrights was a wobbly reed to lean on to begin with?

Assume that this man is sincere, and that he thought the APA transferred copyrights. That does not confirm that both Novell and SCO intended the APA to convey copyrights, no matter how much SCO wishes it could, because this man cannot speak for oldSCO. Strangely, SCO has not yet gotten a similar declaration from anyone from oldSCO. Why not?

Is this witness the best one SCO has? It may be simply the one they are using to try to survive a motion to dismiss, and it may indeed be enough for that, but if this is all they have, it hardly seems enough to win at trial. Maybe they have more hidden away for later. But at best they can use him to raise doubts about the APA, but if the APA is in doubt, how can there be any Novell malice?

Then SCO argues that for 8 years, Novell never objected. But Novell, of course, would say that the agreement said SCO could ask for copyrights if it needed them for its business, but in 8 years it never asked. This part is like listening to a divorcing couple argue. You can read Novell's Motion to Dismiss for their side of the argument, including the letters that passed back and forth when this story was young and new, and whether Novell intended to harm SCO by speaking publicly.

Footnote 7 is interesting. SCO makes the following claim:

"Although Novell 's copyright ownership claims do impact certain copyright right claims in the SCO v. IBM case, Novell does not (and cannot) dispute SCO's ownership of the rights to the IBM and Sequent license agreements. Novell's copyright-ownership claims do not impact those agreements."

Here SCO acknowledges that what the judge decides here will impact on their claims against IBM regarding copyright. I see it as an acknowledgment that they might just lose on the copyright issue, and they are wanting all of us to know that they would still be holding the breach of contract claims against IBM and Sequent. That, of course, is currently being briefed, as to whether or not SCO even has any such claims that will survive the mountains of declarations IBM has presented to the court.

This memorandum is certainly fine legal work, in that they make something out of almost nothing. We won't get into the morality of it. You have to give credit where credit is due, and I'm surely glad they didn't start out with legal documents on this level. I think, however, it may be too late. The judge knows now, from the IBM case, what is missing from the table. Without one other piece -- somebody actually finding some System V code in Linux -- absolutely none of these fancy arguments mean a thing in the end, no matter who owns the copyright.

So while you can't rule out the possibility that Judge Kimball will decide it's too early to decide certain matters or be persuaded that one of the technical arguments SCO raises is valid and thus denies Novell's motion, the bottom line is this: can SCO persuade the judge, or later a jury if it goes that far, that Novell acted with malicious intent, desiring to harm SCO? So much of their argument depends on that. But what about you? Did they persuade you, accepting all their arguments as being true? Or is there a little common sense voice in the back of your mind saying, This is silly?


  


SCO Finally Answers Novell's Motion to Dismiss | 220 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
Corrections here, please
Authored by: overshoot on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 06:00 PM EDT
No, "strike all" doesn't count.

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT and links
Authored by: overshoot on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 06:02 PM EDT
Please use the <a href=""></a> tags.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Trolls post here
Authored by: overshoot on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 06:05 PM EDT
Go ahead, you know you want to.

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO Finally Answers Novell's Motion to Dismiss
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 06:10 PM EDT
This is an overlong memo, so there is also an Order granting SCO's Ex Parte Motion for Leave to File an Overlength Memorandum.

Wow, I'll bet nobody expected that!

-1, Sarcasm

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO letters asking for the copyrights
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 06:23 PM EDT
IIRC, SCO sent in H1 2003 several letters to Novell, asking
them to transfer the Unix copyrigths, which Novell refused
to do.

So, how can SCO now says that it did believe it owned the
copyrights or that Novell knew it didn't own the copyrights?

NNP

[ Reply to This | # ]

Perhaps the system is broken?
Authored by: SilverWave on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 06:57 PM EDT

Oh my God I think I’m losing the plot...this is getting deep!

Maybe if I sleep on it and come back and reread this it will make more sense.

Or perhaps the system is broken if SCO can continue to get the Judge to bend over backwards, always being forced to give the best possible interpretation of the Law to SCO no matter how absurd the case as a whole is?

---
Linux used ideas from MINIX
MINIX|UNIX
UNIX|MULTICS
MULTICS|CTSS
CTSS|FMS
In science, all work is based on what came before it.
Andy Tanenbaum, 6June04

[ Reply to This | # ]

Chatlos testimony vs. malice
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 07:04 PM EDT
I haven't read the complete pdf, but I don't get one point:

For me, IANAL and further more I am not familiar with american legal practice,
this testimony makes no sense. SCO has to prove malice. Not that it is
impossible that SCO might have got the Copyrights or, what the testimony IMHO
says, that SCO might got the impression they got the copyrights. But does it
matter?
His testimony might be a point in a slander of title against SCO (and this if
SCO woul be oldSCO).
C has to prove thas A did something in malice. They present somebody (B) who
negotiated with C. B tells he thought the copyrights are included. The point is
if A (or his successor) was aware that the copyrights where (no matter if...)
transfered. Where is this stated? It is a slander of title not a copyright
claim! SCO avoided the latter (so they don't have to proof anything), but
defends as if they did. Trying to take the advantage of both possibilities,
whining about the disadvantages of their choice.

[ Reply to This | # ]

My interpretation of the critical issues
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 07:54 PM EDT
(1) I wouldn't dismiss SCO's rule 12 argument.

Novell certainly could have raised in their initial motion to dismiss, the
following reasons:

(a) Special Damages - SCO complaint doesn't adequately plead special damages

(b) Falsity - Novell's statements are not false

(c) Malice - Even if Novell's statements are false, as they have a meritorous
legal position behind them, they can not imply malice.

If you remember Novell did (a) and (b) in the first motion to dismiss. Novell
won on (a), but didn't win on (b) sufficient for a motion to dismiss

Now it's true that there is *more* evidence for (c) now, and it's true that
Novell couldn't have known what Kimball would rule in response to their initial
motion to dismiss, but they *could* have known their falsity argument was
meritorous, and therefore they probably *could* have argued point (c) in their
initial motion to dismiss, but for whatever reason, they didn't.

Now I don't who is right on this issue. Novell would surely say that they
couldn't have argued point (c) in the initial motion to dismiss, without
Kimball's earlier ruling. SCO would surely say that Novell could have (although
one has to wonder what SCO would have said if Novell had argued it in the first
motion to dismiss - perhaps they would have claimed that Novell couldn't assert
point (c) at this stage without Kimball first ruling on whether Novell's claims
had merit, i.e. the exact opposite of what they are arguing now).


(2) Assume for a moment Novell overcome the rule 12 argument.

What this boils down is this:

- Novell: We have a meritorous legal position, and as a matter of law, that's
not malice

- SCO: (a) You don't have a meritorous legal positon, but (b) even if you did,
it could still be malice if the statements were false and you had a nasty state
of mind.


Regarding point (a), I could be wrong, but I don't think that SCO haven't shown
anything extra which fundamentally changes things since Kimball's last ruling.

Argument (b) is where I think this could be resolved. Frankly I guess this
depends on the cases, and I don't know the answer. I did notice that Novell had
Utah cases for this, and I also noticed, on a cursory reading that SCO tries to
show that they're not the same.


(3) The argument about priviledge.

If Novell wins on 2(a) and 2(b), then I don't think this issue arises

If SCO wins on 2(a) or 2(b), then we get to this argument.

I don't know the answer. And this seems to be the part where Novell couldn't
find Utah cases for their position.

In short,

- Novell seems to be arguing - our statements are priviledged.

- And SCO seems to be arguing - (a) your statements are not priviledged, and
(b) even if privledged, you exceeded the priviledge.



Which way will this go?

My Answer: I have no idea.


Quatermass
IANAL IMHO etc




[ Reply to This | # ]

Better writing this time but...
Authored by: rand on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 07:54 PM EDT
Confusion Reigns Supreme -- at least at the SCOG campsite:
"...when Santa Cruz Operation, Inc. sold to Caldera the UNIX and UnixWare business, the Intellectual Property Assignment specifically included a conveyance of all copyrights..."
The Caldera/Caldera/OldSCO merger (NOT "sale") agreement did not contain or mention an "Intellectual Property Assignment",

...but it mentions that "...'Copyright Assignment' means a form of assignment mutually acceptable to Caldera and SCO assigning all copyrights included in the Contributed Assets."

...but the Caldera/Caldera Systems APA (see link below) does mention an "Intellectual Property Assignment Agreement";

...but that "Intellectual Property Assignment" covered trade secrets because there was a separate "Copyright Assignement" for that purpose there as well.

Ah, well, it's not like SCOG referred to any document that's part of the record :-)

Caldera/Caldera APA
Merger
PS: this amendment to the C/C APA is the only one I've found so far that specifically mentions a "Bill of Sale".

---
The wise man is not embarrassed or angered by lies, only disappointed. (IANAL and so forth and so on)

[ Reply to This | # ]

The keen eye of br3n
Authored by: rand on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 08:01 PM EDT
[copied from another article 'cause it goes so musch better here]

A comment by br3n at Yahoo/SCOX made me go back and re-read the section about
Chatlos' declaration. She's right, there's much weasle-wording there, and a
careful reading reveals much that's not revealed, and now I'm dizzy and have
another SCOGdoc-induced headache.

It's going to be interesting to see the entire document.

It was his intent, he says, to sell SCO the copyrights, but he doesn't remember
anyone giving him guidance either way, or even discussing the subject with him.

He apparently never told SCO his intent outright, either,
and they didn't discuss it with him.

What's interesting is what he DOESN'T say.

He doesn't says that SCO was or wasn't told they were buying copyrights; he says
he doesn't recall them being told they weren't buying copyrigts.

He doesn't say anyone told him SCO was or wasn't buying copyrights; he says he
doesn't remember anyone telling him they weren't buying copyrights.

He doesn't say anyone at Novell or SCO acted like SCO bought the copyrights; he
says he didn't observe anyone at Novell or SCO acting as if Novell retained the
copyrights.

There's a lot of conclusions there that depend on the lack of evidence of
evidence (no, that's not a typo).

Questions that seems obvious to me: if it was so apparent to the lead negotiator
that that the intent of the APA was to "sell the entire UNIX business to
SCO, including the UNIX source code and all associated copyrights", why
didn't the lead negotiator get that language INTO the APA? Why did the lead
negotiator allow the phrase "all copyrights" to be included in the
excluded assets?

He then goes on to give his opinion on the intent of two agreements that he
apparently wasn't involved with in any way: Amendedment 2 and the Technology
Licensing Agreement.

---
The wise man is not embarrassed or angered by lies, only disappointed. (IANAL
and so forth and so on)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Novell-Old SCO bill of sale?
Authored by: marbux on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 08:14 PM EDT
SCO is claiming in its brief that it exhibits a bill of sale transferring
ownership of the copyrights from Novell to old SCO, and that the bill of sale
wasn't previously in the record.

Is this new information? I don't recall a bill of sale.

[ Reply to This | # ]

About rule 12
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 08:22 PM EDT
First look at Novell's motion to dismiss. Paragraph 1 page 2, it's premised on "for failure to state a claim upon which relief may be granted"


Next look at 12(g), which is the basis of SCO's argument that Novell didn't raise the argument about malice in its earlier motion to dismiss.
(g) Consolidation of Defenses in Motion.

A party who makes a motion under this rule may join with it any other motions herein provided for and then available to the party. If a party makes a motion under this rule but omits therefrom any defense or objection then available to the party which this rule permits to be raised by motion, the party shall not thereafter make a motion based on the defense or objection so omitted, except a motion as provided in subdivision (h)(2) hereof on any of the grounds there stated.


The underlined bit seems to say if you don't use a defense, you lose it, except for those in (h)(2)

So let's look at (h)(2)
(h) Waiver or Preservation of Certain Defense

(1) A defense of lack of jurisdiction over the person, improper venue, insufficiency of process, or insufficiency of service of process is waived (A) if omitted from a motion in the circumstances described in subdivision (g), or (B) if it is neither made by motion under this rule nor included in a responsive pleading or an amendment thereof permitted by Rule 15(a) to be made as a matter of course.

(2) A defense of failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted, a defense of failure to join a party indispensable under Rule 19, and an objection of failure to state a legal defense to a claim may be made in any pleading permitted or ordered under Rule 7(a), or by motion for judgment on the pleadings, or at the trial on the merits.
The bold part would seem to suggest to me that the defense of failure to state a claim, is preserved (and if I understand Novell's 2nd dismissal motion correctly that is the basis of the motion).

Next go look at the Notes on the rules

From the 1966 notes:

Since the language of the subdivisions is made clear, the party is put on fair notice of the effect of his actions and omissions and can guard himself against unintended waiver. It is to be noted that while the defenses specified in subdivision (h)(1) are subject to waiver as there provided, the more substantial defenses of failure to state a claim upon which relief can be granted, failure to join a party indispensable under Rule 19, and failure to state a legal defense to a claim (see Rule 12(b)(6), (7), (f)), as well as the defense of lack of jurisdiction over the subject matter (see Rule 12(b)(1)), are expressly preserved against waiver by amended subdivisions (h)(2) and (3).


Quatermass
IANAL IMHO etc

[ Reply to This | # ]

Chatlos
Authored by: rand on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 08:30 PM EDT
"It isn't clear from this document whether he was a lawyer or on the
business side, but it sounds like the latter."

Sales/Marketing and Customer Service
http://www.websphere.org/aboutus.php

"Ed Chatlos is President of Group Intelligence, Inc....Vice President and
General Manager, AT&T's WorldNet Service...held various Marketing, Sales and
Business Development roles with Unix Systems Laboratories and Novell."



---
The wise man is not embarrassed or angered by lies, only disappointed. (IANAL
and so forth and so on)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Purple Unicorns
Authored by: arch_dude on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 08:32 PM EDT
All parties agree that the APA is vague. My theory is that this was quite
deliberate. Novell was hiding the fact that they did not know what copyrights
they held, and that there was a possibility that there were not valid copyrights
other than the ones (manuals, etc.) that were explicitly conveyed.

By this theory, Novell sold oldSCO all the horses in the field (listed by name)
but explicitly refused to sell any of the purple unicorns in the field.

In ammendment 2, Novell agreed to convey any of the purple unicorns that SCO
could demonstrate a need for.

The documents were very carefully worded so that Novell did not have to
explicitly say what they actually knew: there are no purple unicorns.

If in fact none of the USL code was actually copyrighted under any theory of
copyright law, then there were no copyrights to convey. Novell may know or
suspect that this is the case because they have access to the sealed records of
the BSDi lawsuit.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Is Amendment 2 to the APA valid?
Authored by: wvhillbilly on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 08:51 PM EDT
In looking at a .PDF of APA Amendment 2 I notice there is a signature for Novell, but none for Santa Cruz Operation. There is a space marked for their signature, but the signature and name lines are blank. My question is, without a signature from Santa Cruz Operation, is this document valid and legally binding?

Does anyone know the origins or nature of the document that was scanned for the .PDF? All I hear is that it was found in a file drawer by new SCO some days after a question came up about ownership of copyrights. Is the document SCO has an original document, a photocopy, a facsimile, or what? Or does anybody know? If it is an original document, perhaps some forensic examinations could reveal something of its origins or authenticity.

My personal suspicion is that it is either a forgery, or at least invalid, having been signed by only one party to the amendment, and not by both. And the matter of the timing and manner of its "discovery" seems to me extremely suspicious.

---
What goes around comes around, and it grows as it goes.

[ Reply to This | # ]

A pincer movement involving five cases.
Authored by: Brian S. on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 09:15 PM EDT
Without attempting to be legally savvy, it seems to me SCOG have found
themselves trapped in a pincer movement involving all five of their legal
opponents.

They started four cases to show the world how serious they were, Red Hat jumped
in by themselves.

Although, each opponent of SCOG has presented good reasons why SCOG should
fail, they are all also using SCOG's arguements in the other cases to trap them
with words.

Perhaps, SCOG are regretting making so many threats, they'd better get all
their lawyer teams together and give them a tutorial on "How we have not
been consistent". They could do worse than tell them to read Groklaw from
the start, that should give them an excuse for another delay.

Seriously though, I don't think they actually considered that their words in
different courts would come back to haunt them like this. They didn't realise
the depth of the F/OSS movement would allow for every statement they made to be
dissected and analysed by thousands of people. In short, I don't think the
lawyer teams expected their contradictions to be exposed. Some people will do
anything for money, but SCOG's lawyers don't appear to be amongst the good
ones.

They have, however, done really well as advertising executives, promoting Linux
and F/OSS way beyond everyone's expectations. For this, I think they should be
awarded a prize. For the second year running, I award a joint prize to SCOG and
their lawyers.

Linux and F/OSS "Promoters of the Year, 2004"

Brian S.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Chatlos
Authored by: Jude on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 09:19 PM EDT
All this guys talks about is what he *doesn't* know.
What the heck kind of evidence is that?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Interesting message on Yahoo SCOX board
Authored by: Walter Dnes on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 09:19 PM EDT
http://finance.messages.yahoo.com/bbs?.mm=FN&action=m&board=1600684464&a
mp;tid=cald&sid=1600684464&mid=190463&thr=190400&cur=190400&
dir=d

I don't know if the author was serious or not, but here is the text of his
message...

> Yes, however the document appears to be written in a font that is
> exclusive to a version of Microsoft Word that was not available
> until 2 years after the document was supposed to be created.

Before we "jump to delusions", is there a more innocent explanation?
Could a file have been imported into MS-Word and the HTML generated by Word.
I.e. we have an HTML-ized version of the original file. I notice in the HTML
source
(one long line begins)...
<!-- ZEQ.=1,SEQ=1,EFW="2123204",CP="THE SCO GROUP,
INC.",DN="3",CHK=344435,FOLIO='blank',FILE='DISK038:[03DEN0.03DEN
2800]KG2800A.;1',USER='SLYUBOM',CD='19-NOV-2003;02:40' -->
<A NAME="page_kg2800_1_2"> </A>
<UL>
(one long line ends)

(one long line begins)...
<!-- ZEQ.=2,SEQ=2,EFW="2123204",CP="THE SCO GROUP,
INC.",DN="3",CHK=809253,FOLIO='2',FILE='DISK038:[03DEN0.03DEN2800
]KG2800A.;1',USER='SLYUBOM',CD='19-NOV-2003;02:40' -->
<!-- THIS IS THE END OF A COMPOSITION COMPONENT -->
(one long line ends)

[ Reply to This | # ]

They can't not answer....
Authored by: Latesigner on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 09:24 PM EDT
They have to produce written proof that copyrights were transfered. I really
don't think Kimball is going to go for the oral agreement bit.
Since they can't we have this thing that simply rehashes what has gone before.
I don't really know what to make of Chatlos. Why would you send someone into
negotiate for you without telling him the whole story ?
On the otherhand, Chatlos may have simpy assumed he knew without bothering to
check further to find out what was really going on. It wouldn't be the first
time something like that happened.
The question his existence raises is : Why is his the only deposition ?
Surely this was a team effort on both sides ? Where is everybody else ?
And if everybody else is deposed will their memories agree with his ?
I'm betting they don't which is why Ed Chatlos is alone in his glory.

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO Finally Footnote 7
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 09:36 PM EDT
"Although Novell 's copyright ownership claims do impact certain copyright right claims in the SCO v. IBM case, Novell does not (and cannot) dispute SCO's ownership of the rights to the IBM and Sequent license agreements. Novell's copyright-ownership claims do not impact those agreements."

This reads to me like SCO is making the case that they did indeed have the right to terminate IBM's perpetual license agreement, and that Novell did not have any right to intercede. Comments?

...D (Obviously, IANAL)

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO giving evidence for IBM's case?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 09:59 PM EDT
"Because SCO is developing enhancements, is writing its own code, SCO does as a matter of copyright law own the copyright rights and the rights to enforce the copyright rights in the code that it developed. There is no so-called grant back provision in this agreement that's referred to here which does have a license back to Novell. It's not at issue today, but the point is, in terms of the copyright ownership, it's not correct to say that they didn't get any copyright ownership. As a matter of copyright law and how copyright law treats derivative works, they own the code that they wrote. The code that they were merely taking from Novell and incorporating that product they don't own, and they have no need to own."


Novell seems to here be indicating that Novell wanted to guarantee it could use the merged product, including whatever SCO wrote in the future to enhance what Novell was selling.


Does this mean Novell needed a license to use code derived from code that they owned the copyrights on? The same code that SCO is claiming they own the rights to? The same code they are trying to claim gives them the rights to IBM's derived works? If Novell doesn't have the rights to derived work, what makes SCO think they do?

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO Finally Answers Novell's Motion to Dismiss
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 10:04 PM EDT
PJ comments:

"SCO asks why there was any need for a 'license back', if
Novell retained the copyrights? It's a valid question."

This issue was addressed in Amendment 1 to the APA:

"Seller and Buyer agree that the license that Seller is
entitled to exercise after Closing pursuant to Section 1.6
hereof is a right not sold to Buyer and as such is a right
retained by Seller."

[ Reply to This | # ]

"license back"
Authored by: Nick Bridge on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 10:22 PM EDT
Could the "license back" (to Novell) have been intended to allow
Novell access to the "Software Products" *including* changes that will
be made to it?

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: IaNAL -- BD
Authored by: LarryVance on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 10:26 PM EDT
I do not see why it is such a big deal for people to make note of the fact that
they are or are not a lawyer to post an opinion. This is not a legally binding
advice column or AFaIK there is no money that changes hands in return for
advice. Half of the lawyers are always wrong anyway, so their odds are not any
better than the average person, so why alway make the disclaimer?

---
IAAE - TGIANAL
Larry Vance

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • OT: IaNAL -- BD - Authored by: Glenn on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 10:40 PM EDT
  • OT: IaNAL -- BD - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 10:51 PM EDT
  • no it's polite - Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 11:11 AM EDT
  • OT: IaNAL -- BD - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, October 13 2004 @ 10:04 AM EDT
OT - What happened to Maureen O'Gara's claim that SCOG is tarting up in own legal website?
Authored by: blacklight on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 10:53 PM EDT
Maureen O'Gara was claiming a few weeks ago that SCOG was planning to start up
its own legal document repository, because SCOG was tired of being carved up on
groklaw (and probably so was Maureen). To date, I haven't heard a peep from
either SCOG or Maureen about her inside information from SCOG but I expected
that from both of them: all talk - especially garbage talk, but no action. I am
forced to conclude that we on groklaw will have to be stuck with these SCOG
freeloaders and parasites for a while longer.

[ Reply to This | # ]

A Judge's order as fact, in particular, as a 'new fact'
Authored by: Totosplatz on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 11:07 PM EDT

I realize that a judge's order is part of history, and is therefore a fact; but I find it surprising that the Judge's order at an earlier stage in this proceeding has become a 'fact in this case' - because I make the assumption that the case is about a fixed set of facts that pre-exist the start of the case.

I scanned the top level of commentary and didn't see an obvious consideration of this question. Maybe AllParadox can help out here?

The part that I am refering to is related to this quote of PJ from the parent article: "Novell's position is that the ruling shifted the balance around, and that now they would like a ruling based on the new facts."

Thanks.

---
All the best to one and all.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Sufficent to show malice....
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, October 08 2004 @ 11:29 PM EDT
...Novell acted recklessly-sufficient to show malice-by claiming ownership of the copyrights without even having reviewed the relevant contract documents...

One wonders if claiming stolen IP without properly reviewing and documenting the alleged IP constitutes malice.
I think it does.

[ Reply to This | # ]

What about Special Damages?
Authored by: DMF on Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 02:28 AM EDT
As I recall from my earlier readings, especially the original order dismissing
the case, Judge Kimball found the lack of special damages persuasive. I recall
that the bit permitting a refiling especially noted that SCOG could (should)
supply some this time around.

Yet in reading their re-filed complaint, the special damages section is
essentially the same: "Novell made us pay lawyers to file this suit."

I find it surprising that Novell didn't jump on that with both feet. Relying on
the Judge's order to refute the second filing should (to me) be persuasive. But
shouldn't Novell be covering all its bases?

Is Kimball restricted by the briefs here, or can he pull out the special damages
basis on his own?

[ Reply to This | # ]

The APA Specifically Excluded UNIX Copyrights
Authored by: kawabago on Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 03:48 AM EDT
The Amendment is what muddied the waters. The exclusion is in the Schedule of
Excluded Assets to the APA. So how could Chatlost not have discussed the
copyrights if they are specifically excluded in the APA? He was working in the
mailroom, that's how.

---
Just Believe.

[ Reply to This | # ]

easy to find code?
Authored by: irieiam on Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 07:34 AM EDT
Well, while surfing over at freshmeat.net, I found this page offering the v7
Unix Sources, upgraded to modern C conventions.

http://www.southern-storm.com.au/v7upgrade.html

With code just 'floating around' like this, how could anything be locked-down
and 'owned' like SCOG would like to think?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Novell Talks too much to the Press!
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 08:22 AM EDT
I liked the part where SCO complains that Novell talked too "widely"
to the press.

These SCO lawyers should proclaim IANAC ( I am not a clown) on their writings so
people will not mistake them and think badly of the honorable clown profession.

[ Reply to This | # ]

If what the lawyers sign is all that matters
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 10:24 AM EDT
Then doesn't that mean IBM are in trouble with their "but we didn't really
*mean* it" argument about derivative works? We can't have it both ways.

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO Finally Answers Novell's Motion to Dismiss
Authored by: blacklight on Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 01:24 PM EDT
We should definitely need background on Ed Chatlos, and we should get our hands
on his declaration ASAP. Whatever Ed Chatlos is asserting to is at variance with
the terms of the Novell-OldSCO APA, which raises the question as to why he
negotiated the terms of the Novell-Old SCO APA as they are instead of using
phrasing that more accurately reflects the alleged intent - especially if he was
high enough in Novell's corporate ladder to do it. Let's note that the our
intepretation of the Novell-OldSCO APA is consistent with the behavior and
conduct of both parties for years after the agreement was signed, until SCOG
demanded the copyrights from Novell in 2003. At any rate, it does not hurt us at
all that SCOG has included in its pleadings its attachment of Novell's presss
release and recently the bill of sale, thereby giving the judge a way to make
his own assessment of SCOG's veracity and credibility as a litigant by comparing
the docs with SCOG's interpretation of them.

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO Finally Answers Novell's Motion to Dismiss
Authored by: blacklight on Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 01:52 PM EDT
"SCO's answer is to say that the same order said that the issue of
ownership would more properly be handled in a summary judgment motion or at
trial, not in a motion to dismiss, and that he couldn't conclude that SCO could
present *no* set of facts to prove its claim"

My rejoinder is that SCOG will have to establish its alleged ownership of the
copyrights in a separate lawsuit. At this point, SCOG is suing Novell for
Slander of Title - a lawsuit that SCOG is incompetent to file because SCOG hass
failed to establish that it owns the copyrights that it purports to own, never
mind the malice issue which is pretty much insurmountable for SCOG. My attitude
is that the judge is better off making a clean sweep of SCOG's Slander of Title
suit and telling SCOG that if SCOG wants to establish it owns the copyrights,
then SCOG will have to file a suit against Novell that is explicitly about SCOG
establishing that it owns the copyrights that it purports to own.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Chatlost and Perjury
Authored by: math geezer on Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 02:22 PM EDT
Chatlost is represented as saying he was transferring all the copyrights in the
APA. If this is so why is there the following in the APA:
...
"Excluded Assets
V Intellectual Property
A All copyrights and trademarks except for the trademarks
UNIX and UNIXWARE.
B All Patents."
...
Did the lawyer who took the deposition and submitted it to the court subborn
perjury?
Tha statements ascribed to Chatlost and the quoted section from the APA cannot
both be true at the same time.
Since Chatlost is commenting on the sale, the following Amendment to the APA is
not germain to this argument.
IANAL

[ Reply to This | # ]

Insane in the membrane.
Authored by: mobrien_12 on Saturday, October 09 2004 @ 05:46 PM EDT

SCOG should have filed a lawsuit to prove that Novell did not own the Copyrights. Instead, they chose to go through a completely different tack with this "slander of title" which has never been applied to copyright law before.

Either this is Darl's ego talking (something like "how dare they say we don't own the copyrights! Sue them for even saying that!") Or Boies' lawfirm is trying to play cowboy and expand IP law. Either way it's stupid.

Even if it is eventually proven that SCOG owns the copyrights, there is RIGHT NOW a significant and real question as to who owns the copyrights. It's not cut & dry. From what I understand, you can't slander a title unless you KNOW there is no question.

And as for malice... well Darl has made lots of statements to effect that there are all sorts of "agents" of IBM out there plotting against him. We've seen the letters between Novell and Darl. Who was the first one to say words to the effect of "I'm not talking to you anymore. Talk to my lawyer." ?

They even say in footnote 8 of this 47 page piece of compost that

8) In fact, SCO expects the evidence to show that after Novell had operated for years in proper recognition of SCO's ownership of UNIX and UnixWare copyrights, Novell's new executive management concocted Novell's recent ownership claims only after Novell decided to acquire the Linux distributior SuSE and otherwise asssist IBM in litigation against SCO.

So they believe that Novell is another conspirator helping big bad IBM against little SCOG and thats the reason they bought SuSE? Doesn't this sound just a little NUTS?

The memo reeks of desperation to me. But of course, I'm not a lawwyer.

[ Reply to This | # ]

License back argument particularly non-compelling
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, October 10 2004 @ 02:16 AM EDT
The quotes by SCO of the UnixWare license back agreement is particularly
non-compelling in the question of Unix SysV conveyance. I read it quite simply
that Santa Cruz agreed to license back merged product technology, not the
original SysV product technology.

Leonard

[ Reply to This | # ]

Argument for Novell
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, October 10 2004 @ 06:14 AM EDT
When the judge rules against Novell on the basis that he has to rule generally
in favor of the plaintiff in a motion to dismiss (regarding the
"malice" in Novells actions), then Novell could file a slander of
title case against SCO with exactly the same chances to win (or at least to deny
motions to dismiss by SCO), because as a defendant you simply cannot *prove*
that you acted without malice.

It's the same like with the WoMD in Iraq. Iraq *could not* prove that they had
no such weapons. It's logically impossible.

But - Iraq aside - when two slander of title cases from opposing parties have
the same chance to succeed, shouldn't they automatically self-destruct, because
in this case obviously no party acted with malice?

TToni

[ Reply to This | # ]

Novell, please don't let TSG play these games.
Authored by: coffee17 on Sunday, October 10 2004 @ 08:26 AM EDT

In 204cv001390000052.pdf on numbered page 14 (pg 17 of the pdf) TSG (The SCO Group) says:

Shortly after the closing of the APA, SCO obtained physical possession of UNIX copyrights; those copyrights remain in SCO's possession to this day.

That is wrong on it's face. Shortly after the closing of the APA, the Santa Cruz Operation may have obtained some of the copyrights to the UNIX manuals, but "SCO" as is used in the court papers didn't even exist "shortly after the closing of the APA" . How can something that doesn't exist be in possession of the copyrights at the time? And why did the Santa Cruz Operation think of "SCO" possessing their copyrights.

Especially because of the change of control clauses, Novell has to call this out loud and clear as a "puzzling" statement. Along with all other statements which blend Santa Cruz with TSG.

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The Santa Cruz Organization, Inc.
Authored by: tgf on Sunday, October 10 2004 @ 02:46 PM EDT
"The Santa Cruz Organization, Inc."

Does anyone know anything about this company that SCOG refer to on
page 7 (pdf p10)?

I've heard of "The Santa Cruz Operation", but perhaps "The SCO
Group" haven't. ;-)

Tim

---
Oxymoron of the day:
Microsoft innovation

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