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Attorneys React to Wells' Order -- It's Routine
Saturday, January 22 2005 @ 07:07 PM EST

I certainly thought the SCO PR machine would go into full gear with Judge Wells' discovery Order, but if they have, the only ones who seem impressed are Maureen O'Gara, Laura DiDio and Daniel Lyons, as you would expect.

Here is a representative sample of unbiased reactions. First David Coursey, in his The Coursey Report newsletter, which is delivered by email, and who hasn't been a rabid SCO critic by any means, says they won a round, but so what? Here is what he thinks will happen:

SCO Wins a Round, So What?

Also on this week's agenda was a rare good day for SCO in its battle with IBM and the rest of the world.

Here's what I think will happen: The trial won't take place until sometime in 2006, at the earliest. In the meantime, SCO will leave its money-losing Unix products business. SCO will continue its legal battles, eventually losing when it is determined that the agreements bringing ownership of Unix to SCO don't give it standing to sue competitors (or anybody else).

It's sad to see a company that used to be such a happening place become such a total loser.

Stephen J. Vaughan-Nichols collected reactions from attorneys in an article, "How Significant Is SCO's Win?", and the consensus was pretty much what I told you my reaction was, that it was a pretty normal discovery order that doesn't mean much in the long run.

Vaughan-Nichols also asked Laura DiDio for her reaction, although why he thinks Ms. Didio would be able to speak about the law is a mystery to me. Maybe he did it for the fun of it. And she doesn't disappoint us there. The article says that "DiDio also found the following comments from Wells possibly indicative of the latitude she may grant SCO if and when this case ever gets to court." The simple fact is, Wells isn't the judge that will try this case. So that was an enjoyable moment for me.

But to give her her due, she does accurately point out that IBM is in a much better position than SCO to have the case drag on and on. I believe IBM has demonstrated its ability to do that successfully in the past. And as Coursey points out, time is not SCO's friend. If they really thought they had a winning case, he writes, they wouldn't be seeking delays.

Allonn Levy, a partner in the San Jose, Calif., law firm Hopkins & Carley, told Vaughan-Nichols this isn't much of a victory:

"After a series of very public setbacks, SCO is looking to demonstrate a 'win' in its high-profile Linux cases," Levy said. "Unfortunately, Judge Wells' order probably isn't as dramatic a victory as SCO would like. In reality, the court issued a fairly routine discovery order compelling IBM to respond further to certain discovery and ordering it to turn over certain source code and documents."

And that is exactly what I told you, too. I got an email from a discouraged reader, thinking I was just spinning a huge loss. I never spin, though. If I thought IBM had taken a beating, I'd tell you straight up. And now you can verify that I was on the money, according to the lawyers interviewed.

Vaughan-Nichols also asked Kelly Talcott, a partner with international law firm Kirkpatrick & Lockhart Nicholson Graham LLP, to comment, and while she notes the contract wording in the Order, she agrees the bottom line is that this was a garden variety discovery order:

"The magistrate judge pointed out that SCO's breach of contract claims could end up playing a more important role in the case than the copyright infringement claims because they could implicate code that does not infringe any SCO copyright," she said.

But with all that in mind, Talcott emphasized that "the ruling only addressed whether IBM had to produce the code [as well as some other discovery issues]. It is not a ruling on the viability or not of SCO's breach of contract claims. But, by highlighting IBM's potential liability under the contract claims, the magistrate judge has given IBM something to think about." . . .

All in all, "at one level it is not terribly significant, given the general deference to broad discovery built into the U.S. legal system," Talcott said. "Anything that is reasonably likely to lead to the discovery of admissible evidence is fair game for discovery."

Thomas Carey, chairman of the business practice group at Boston-based Bromberg & Sunstein LLP, a IP firm, also said the order wasn't surprising:

"From the viewpoint of efficiency, this was an unfortunate order because it will cost IBM plenty to comply with, and the magistrate failed to limit the scope of discovery to matters that could really be a violation of the contract," Carey said. "But from the viewpoint of what normally appears at this stage of a lawsuit, it is not surprising. Plaintiffs typically are given wide latitude to hunt through a defendant's files to look for a smoking gun."

By far the most interesting comment, to me, was what Levy said here:

"Ironically, this order forcing IBM to disclose more information to SCO may help IBM in its efforts to obtain summary judgment by removing any argument by SCO that information necessary for its case has been withheld—a point Judge Wells seems to allude to in her order."

Vaughan-Nichols astutely quoted this section of the order:

"Based upon the possibility of increased protection under the contract and the general principle that 'at the discovery stage, the concept of relevance should be construed very broadly,' the court finds that the burden of producing the code SCO seeks is outweighed by the relevancy of such code in the instant dispute," Wells wrote in her decision.

Very broadly is the key phrase here.

I think, personally, that Wells misunderstood what homegrown code means, in the IBM context. Or her clerk did. I find it hard to believe that a female wrote this Order. For one thing, the footnote about football is a big hint. I fully expect that whatever IBM does or doesn't do, they surely noticed this misunderstanding too. If I have noticed, they surely wouldn't miss it.

What Wells failed to even mention and obviously didn't factor in is Amendment X and all the side agreements that clearly give IBM the right to code they write themselves, the homegrown code, so long as no original System V code is in there too. For Wells to write that IBM can strengthen its case by proving that they didn't contribute this homegrown code to Linux is to reveal that she doesn't understand what IBM's case is about, what IBM means when it says homegrown code, or what their rights are. Of course they have contributed that code. It's hard to imagine how the judge could have missed that, and unfortunately for IBM, her misunderstanding sends them on a time consuming and expensive hunt for info that won't resolve the issue the judge posits. To miss something that basic does make one wonder whether IBM will appeal. They surely and obviously could.

But educating judges is what lawyers do. It's a process, and just because a judge misses something in an early round, it doesn't mean they won't catch on later. IBM will have to do a better job of explaining. And they know exactly what to explain better now.

Here's what I wonder. I assume SCO probably knows already that they won't find any code that infringes. They probably won't do much to even check. What I'm thinking they might do is try to search the comments by keywords, like AT&T, license, etc. If IBM fails to include someone on the list of 3,000 that they find a significant comment from, they'll scream bloody murder about IBM hiding and shucking and jiving. They keep trying to paint IBM as the bad guys. So far, IBM has been too polite to paint them as nuisance litigators. For the order to say that the judge attributes good faith to both sides is a big clue that perhaps IBM have been just too nice and too polite. Anyway, if it were a case I was working on, and we got that order, and anybody asked me my opinion, that is what I'd tell them.

Some have written to ask me if I thought the fix was in. I don't. I recall, as some of you do, that SCO foreshadowed a win in this discovery motion in broad strokes. And that can seem odd. But even I wrote that I thought SCO would get something more in discovery, just because they whined so loud for one thing, and because discovery is what it is. You know I'm not part of any pro-SCO plot. It seems reasonable to me that SCO's lawyers could figure if they complained enough, they'd get more. That is why they did it. But the Order gives IBM all kinds of reasons to appeal, not SCO, and if the fix was in, it wouldn't have been written that way.

What I wonder about instead is this: If there is some discussion between Kimball and Wells, I think if this Order signifies anything, it may signify that the copyright decision is going to go against SCO, leaving only the contract claims. I note the emphasis Wells put on that point, and it may be reflective of what she knows. If that is a correct understanding, and I'm just guessing, folks, then Linux would be more or less in the clear as far as SCO going after end users for DMCA infringement. That was a big part of their original dream. That was the greatest fear I had from the beginning. I always knew IBM could take care of itself.

Perhaps the contract claims will end up going to trial, if Kimball misses Amendment X too and also misunderstands homegrown code, just because they have to if there is even one plausible theory of the case that requires a jury. If a judge doesn't understand what homegrown code is or doesn't factor in Amendment X, and therefore finds a theory plausible, it could go to trial, based on that misunderstanding. Not to burst any bubbles, but judges are human, and you just have to continue to show respect even when they goof, even when it isn't fair, isn't right, etc.

It's like any other conversation. I'm sure you've all had discussions with a mate or friend where you explained something perfectly, and they still didn't get it. Our life's dramas are frequently built on such materials, no? It's no different in litigation. You explain to the judge. They don't get it. So you swing around and explain it again, from a different angle, or more simply, or with a different emphasis. That is part of the process.

They can't always get it perfectly, no matter what you do, and sadly that is particularly true so far in tech cases. The next generation of judges will be easier. But they do sincerely try most of the time. And, with all the checks and balances built in, in the end you usually do get close to the right result.

So, IBM knows now what it needs to work on to help her, or her clerk, to understand the tech better and the theory of their case. And I'm sure they will.


  


Attorneys React to Wells' Order -- It's Routine | 159 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
Off-Topic? Put it here.
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, January 22 2005 @ 07:21 PM EST
n/t

[ Reply to This | # ]

Is the pace really picking up??
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, January 22 2005 @ 07:35 PM EST
This may just be a short spurt of action, but it defintely feels better when
there are multiple actions revealed per day.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Corrections here:
Authored by: fettler on Saturday, January 22 2005 @ 07:36 PM EST
Whatever

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Corrections here: - Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, January 22 2005 @ 07:43 PM EST
OT: Back to contracts....
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, January 22 2005 @ 07:39 PM EST
SCO released Linux code under GPL, if you want to go back to contract issues.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Linux in the Clear
Authored by: rm6990 on Saturday, January 22 2005 @ 08:01 PM EST
Maybe I am just slow or something, and everyone has known this all along, but
here are some of my thoughts

1) The only way SCO can sue end users of Linux is if there is code in Linux that
SCO owns the copyrights to

2) SCO has not yet been able to prove copyright infringement of any kind to
date

3) Their case seems to rely on (now) IBM contributing code that IBM owns the
copyrights to but code that also violates a contract between SCO and IBM

4) In order for SCO to be able to sue Linux end users, they have to own the
copyrights in question (point 1 reworded a bit)

5) Since IBM owns those copyrights, this case now falls back onto contract law

6) Since this case now falls under contract law, and IBM and SCO were the only
parties to the contract, IBM is the only liable party should IBM have
overstepped their bounds.

Assuming I am correct, we should start spending more energy on the patent
situation and Microsoft than on SCO.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Being human
Authored by: m_si_M on Saturday, January 22 2005 @ 08:11 PM EST

Thank you, PJ, for this article. While reading it, one thing came to my mind: We're all human beings and being human means making mistakes.

Everybody pointing at Judge Wells should answer the question if he or she never made mistakes in their professional lifes.

There are obviously some professions meeting higher expectations of professionalism than others, priests for instance ... or judges. But judges (and especially Federal Judges) normally have shown that they are more than average lawyers. But they still are human beings, and dealing with 200 - 300 cases and large amount of sleazy attorneys at once is a challenge. Ask yourself if you can tell with certainty that you would not err if you were them.

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Being human - Authored by: lazy on Saturday, January 22 2005 @ 09:02 PM EST
    • Being human - Authored by: PJ on Sunday, January 23 2005 @ 07:33 AM EST
      • Being human - Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, January 23 2005 @ 10:50 AM EST
Contract issues only?
Authored by: arch_dude on Saturday, January 22 2005 @ 08:16 PM EST
PJ speculates (knowledgably, based on internal evidence) that Judge Wells might
know that the "SCOG v Linux" issues will be dismissed, leaving only
SCOG v IBM contract issues at trial.

If so, at the point the SCOG v Linux issues are dismissed, many of us
Groklawyers will lose our original and most compelling reason to follow this
case. We will have won.

For myself, I find that this has now become personal. Even if SCOG's attack
against me as a Linux user fails, SCOG has now made me an enemy. I will therefoe
continue to follow the case on Groklaw, and I will continue to cheer for IBM
until SCOG is ground into the dust and is only a hated memory.

This is ironic. At the beginning of my career, IBM was the hated monopolistic
juggernaut, and the then-nacent and unorganized free software community fought
an underground battle against IBM. Now, I will be quite happy to watch (and if
possible help) as the free software community does what it can to help IBM, even
if the only remaining issue is ostensibly a contract fight between two
companies.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Attorneys React to Wells' Order -- It's Routine
Authored by: urzumph on Saturday, January 22 2005 @ 08:23 PM EST
"It's like any other conversation. I'm sure you've all had discussions with
a mate or friend where you explained something perfectly, and they still didn't
get it. Our life's dramas are frequently built on such materials, no? It's no
different in litigation. You explain to the judge. They don't get it. So you
swing around and explain it again, from a different angle, or more simply, or
with a different emphasis. That is part of the process."

Unless of course, you're my physics teacher, who seems to make less sense at
each attempt, (I'm not the only one who feels like that) in which case you will
end up resorting to intricate dances with whiteboard markers.

[ Reply to This | # ]

"with a mate or friend where you explained something perfectly, and they still didn't get it '
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, January 22 2005 @ 08:31 PM EST
Re: "with a mate or friend where you explained something perfectly, and
they still didn't get it"...

I can understand what IBM has to do. But the task is going to be painful for
them to be patient with the learning process of an non-tech judge and/or a
non-tech clerk that is doing alot of the backroom work for the judge. Very
powerful these clerks are... however, if they get it wrong it can affect their
career path.

I got a sister, honors graduate from Smith, married to a guy that graduated top
of his class (#1) at Yale, that I visited over Thanksgiving. I went on their
home computer to check the weather and the screen was on 800x600. I changed it
to something else. Well, on a phone call a day or two later she was saying that
I had ruined her computer (I also installed open office, tux racer, FireFox, and
Gimp for windows)! I wondered what she was talking about. Well, it froze on
reboot for them and when they shut off the power and it rebooted, well her
Internet Explorer she could not read the text on it without her glasses. I told
her she could zoom the text and she did not know what I was talking about. I
told her she could change the screen back to 800x600 and because she did not
understand this as well she got mad too.

Because they could not get the machine back to 800x600, the both of them with
their huge IQs, took it to be "fixed" at the computer guys that handle
the work at one of their many offices! They would not trust me to look at it.
I got over 30 years building servers, Unix, Microsoft, Linux, OS/2, etc... and
they thought I had broken their system (all because they could not fix the
machine back to their 800x600 screen that they could see without glasses)!

My sister is a lawyer (who thinks she could be a wonderful judge). I was
accused of doing all sorts of bad things to her familiy computer, that she still
believes, and I am guilty (without a defense), simply because "she"
does not have a clue about technology.

Oh, I also warned her intelligencey and his exaulted higher intelligency... that
their home 802.11b wireless network was a security nightmare as it was running
on the default from the store configuatino, it was wide open.
My cousin's wife was there too, she turned on her laptop, that was most likely
chock full of viruses AS she had no protection on it at all, and instantly she
was online via their home wireless system. Ouch. Both my sister and her
husband VPN to work using this wireless network... and, they have no firewalls
on their laptops that are wireless. Everything is a store bought default
setting and they are happy. They don't want to hear that they should be
unhappy!

The list goes on and on. They have never even updated their Microsoft XP from
Microsoft's site (not ever once). It is full of all kinds of bad things that
make her system run slow. Oh, they have their computers still running XP on Fat
32 as well?

Sis, well she is still mad at me for knowing more than she does. She will not
take any advise. And she refuses to put Linux on her home system. She does not
even want to hear ONE WORD about it. Eyes gaze over instantly. Then, two
seconds later she tells me that she does not want to talk about it.

Your friends, you can choose, your family, you can not!

And again, she is a Lawyer going on 25 years! I'd say she has a hard time with
tech related discovery. Let us hope that this judge is not like my sister. If
she is, and/or if her clerk is as well clueless, then IBM has a long row ahead
of it.

I can see the appeal excuse now...
The judges eyes glazed over.

Result, appeal granted.

[ Reply to This | # ]

thats all the PR SCO has left
Authored by: be2weenthelines on Saturday, January 22 2005 @ 08:55 PM EST
"I certainly thought the SCO PR machine would go into full gear with Judge
Wells' discovery Order, but if they have, the only ones who seem impressed are
Maureen O'Gara, Laura DiDio and Daniel Lyons, as you would expect."

Maybe that is high gear for what's left of SCOs once prolific PR machine.

be2

[ Reply to This | # ]

So Kimball is a football fan?
Authored by: belzecue on Saturday, January 22 2005 @ 10:02 PM EST
"I find it hard to believe that a female wrote this Order. For one thing,
the footnote about football is a big hint."

That football thing just leapt off the page. For me, it was like listening to a
sing-song female voice over your shoulder for ten minutes, then turning around
and seeing a 300-pound plumber talking through a cigarette and scratching
himself. It was spectacularly jarring.

I didn't realise it until you pointed it out, but yes, typically it would be a
male interest -- not to deny that women CAN and DO follow that particular sport
and other 'male' sports.

So maybe Wells didn't write this -- or at least not the final draft. If not
her, who did? Obviously it was somebody who either 1) knew she would get a
laugh out of the football story, perhaps as an inside joke, or 2) knew she would
not mind him inserting the story, perhaps because he was a superior.

If we allow ourselves these two assumptions -- that the order was written by a
man and that the man was a close colleague or superior -- that pretty much leads
to one door only, right?

On another note, the only thing that worries me about this ruling is that if
Wells can lose sight of the real ball, even with all her understanding and all
the discovery laid out before her, then how easy is it going to be for Boies to
confuse the jury?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Morphing copyright dispute to contract dispute...
Authored by: LionKuntz on Saturday, January 22 2005 @ 10:10 PM EST
To morph a copyright dispute into a copyright dispute terminates all TSCOG
claims on Linux infringement.

Only copyrights give claims over Linux. Any violation of contract IBM may have
done (and I dispute the validity of the contract in the first place after the
1993 USL/AT&T v BSDi case in 1993) puts liability 100% on IBM. If they gave
away homegrown code which courts find they should not have, TSCOG is made whole
by penalties assessed on IBM. The court cannot access penalties on third parties
who innocently received non-copyrighted (by TSCOG) code claimed restricted by
TSCOG.

Neither TSCOG nor the court owns IBM workproduct copyrights. TSCOG, at most can
lay claim to restrictions on some terms of distribution.

TSCOG does not own the code, nor does the court. A breach of contract issue is
solely between the parties. Distribution of restricted, but not owned, code
cannot be rescinded or recalled -- it's not the court's code and it's not
TSCOG's code. The widest latitude the court has is to access TSCOG's damages by
IBM's release -- end of court leeway.

That could amount to a loss by IBM and $1.00 damages awarded to TSCOG, or worse,
TSCOG might lose entirely in its tar-babby serfdom theory of contracts. But in
no case does it extend TSCOG ownership rights to IBM copyrighted code previously
released, or allow for recall and punishment to Linux users.

The IBM contract with AT&T/USL was voided in 1993 by a federal court
changing the intrinsic value on the Unix codebase. All Unix versions share large
overlapping codebase, so any change in one version value has ripple effect
through all versions.


This 1993 judicial finding of facts created a material change in value of TSCOG
predecessor-in-interest, for which IBM was not informed as required by contract
laws to be informed of all material changes in value of contracted deliverable.

TSCOG predecessor-in-interest breached the contract then and there, essentually
voiding the contract in its entirety. IBM, on its part as injured party to this
breach can, ironically, demand that the court require that AT&T
successors-in-interest continue to honor the contract so as not to cause further
debilitating injury to IBM AIX/Dynix/Ptx properties.


In addition, the federal court voided the contract by disclosing in a public
forum the voiding of all substantial trade secrets residing in the Unix
codebase, and by outlining the behaviors on record of AT&T historical
conduct which voided the majority of existing copyrights residing in Unix
multiple-versions shared codebase at that instant in time.

Quite simply, the equation had changed: previously there were two willing
parties to a transaction involving substantial exchanges of value -- a
contract.

Afterwards, one party was empty-handed, unable to deliver the previously agreed
value to the other because the value had been debunked in court proceedings.

Unfortunately, IBM was not party to that 1993 court contest and was not informed
that it was now co-owner with the rest of the world of all the public domain
portions of Unix newly discovered by the court's observances of AT&T's
historic (and now publically admitted by AT&T) misbehaviors pertaining to
copyrights.

It was AT&T's or successor-in-interest mandatory duty required by contract
law to inform the contractee, IBM, of material change in value and ownership of
the contract-property, Unix codebase. IBM thence owned as much of the public
domain portion of Unix as AT&T/USL/Novell/oldSCO/Caldera/TSCOG, which was/is
a substantial majority of the codebase.

In fact I own equal equity in the public domain portion of the majority of Unix
codebase as TSCOG does.

Any onerous conditions attached to that contract evaporated in court in 1993.
That is, providing onerous provisions ever existed, a fact consistently denied
by the contract party AT&T in various public statements and also denied in
affidavits filed in this action.

When TSCOG surrendered copyright claims on Linux code it lost forever any
possibility of legal enforcement of TSCOG tollbooths on the information highway
regarding Linux.

Now it is up to IBM to void the contract regarding Unix controls over most of
AIX/Dynix/Ptx as a meaningless shell gutted in court in 1993, or would they
prefer to spend millions more legal dollars arguing as if this contract had any
substantial residual meaning in 2005?

IBM had better field a much better law team if they ever go against me in
court.


[ Reply to This | # ]

Something does not compute
Authored by: stingbot on Saturday, January 22 2005 @ 11:15 PM EST
...This was a garden variety discovery order:

Then why did IBM vehemently fight this? I am assuming Mariot and his people have many years behind them.

Why then fight it if experienced lawyers agree that this was to be expected? Seems like wasted energy.

It seems to me that IBM in the future should act a little more humble in some of these areas. I think it could go a long way for them. Something about picking battles ...

In my inexperienced opinion, IBM can lose all other arguments to one degree or another except one: Derivative Code.

Maybe we should start an archive of rulings and industry accepted practices for derivative code. Help give IBM an overwhelming punch on the topic of what defines derivative code.

I wish I had more to offer myself on this matter.

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO's end
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, January 22 2005 @ 11:59 PM EST
I can't find the comment now, but someone wrote that SCO used to be a respected
software company. One can only attribute their sad state do the one and only
CEO - Dear Darl.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Attorneys React to Wells' Order -- It's Routine
Authored by: blacklight on Sunday, January 23 2005 @ 12:07 AM EST
"Based upon the possibility of increased protection under the contract and
the general principle that 'at the discovery stage, the concept of relevance
should be construed very broadly,' the court finds that the burden of producing
the code SCO seeks is outweighed by the relevancy of such code in the instant
dispute," Wells wrote in her decision"

If judge Kimball finds in favor of IBM's PSJ that its actions are allowable
under the terms of the AT&T contract, then judge Welles' order does not have
a leg to stand on. To the best of my recollection, SCOG admits that the
technologies thta IBM contributed to Linux belong to IBM but contests that IBM
has the right to contribute them under SCOG's interpretation of the AT&T
contract. Judge Kimball could very straightforwardly make a ruling on this PSJ
without the need for any additional discovery.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Attorneys React to Wells' Order -- It's Routine
Authored by: blacklight on Sunday, January 23 2005 @ 12:22 AM EST
""Based upon the possibility of increased protection under the
contract and the general principle that 'at the discovery stage, the concept of
relevance should be construed very broadly,' the court finds that the burden of
producing the code SCO seeks is outweighed by the relevancy of such code in the
instant dispute," Wells wrote in her decision."

It is quite obvious that SCOG's failure to comply with judgwe Welles' two
consecutive orders to SCOG to substantiate its allegations
"specificity" was not a factor in her ruling.

So basically, anyone can show up in judge Welles' court with zero evidence for
his allegations and have judge Welles issue a fishing license to go through the
defendant's records, with all costs to be borne by the defendant. Judge Welles'
order may be garden variety, but garden variety garbage is still garbage. Never
mind that it took her four months to hand in her homework, and that her homework
contains a couple of glaring factual mistakes plus irrelevant and stupid
references about the game of football and this pathetic statement of belief that
both parties are operating in good faith. Give me a competent, street wise New
York City judge any time.

[ Reply to This | # ]

I'll be the first to say this!
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, January 23 2005 @ 02:22 AM EST
I'll be the first to say this:
Linux does NOT contain SCOsource.
I find it hard to believe that IBM would allow for a contract that prevented from owning the copyrights to their own homegrown code. With Amendment X it all makes sence now.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Issues here?
Authored by: bstone on Sunday, January 23 2005 @ 02:32 AM EST
Maybe I'm just stupid or something, but isn't the basic issue
here pretty simple and straightforward? IBM was contracted
to put some code into UNIX. The code they were asked to
contribute was stuff that IBM owned the patents on, and had
already put into their other operating systems, things that
improved the operations of enterprise class systems.

I assume that the reason IBM was contracted to put this code
into UNIX is that if someone else was to add it, there would
be patent problems, but contracting with IBM for it would
make adding those algorithms legal.

The order of adding these patented algorithms as I understand
it is: IBM put them into AIX, IBM put them into UNIX under
contract, then IBM added them to Linux.

SCOx is now claiming ownership to these algorithms. First
claiming claiming copyright violation, but dropping that
claim when, since the implementations were written
seperately, the code is not the same. Next claiming "trade
secrets", but dropping that claim, although I fail to
understand how SCO could have somehow thought that an idea
they asked IBM to contribute to their code was somehow a
"secret" that they owned that IBM didn't already know.

That leaves only patent infringement as an "IP issue" for
SCO to sue over. SCO owns no patents, and the patents
involved here are clearly the property of IBM.

Like I said, maybe I'm stupid, but why doesn't IBM ask
"what is it you're looking for"?

If it's copyright, why do they need the code that was never
distributed? If you publish a book and someone sues you
for including a copyrighted picture, pulping all the copies
and republishing without that picture before any books are
sold would make the issue moot. The same would go for
removing any copyright code (not that there ever was any)
before distributing. If it's patent or trade secrets,
obviously IBM owns both, and allowing them to be used in
UNIX doesn't change that ownership (although it may make
them non-secret).

So why didn't IBM just ask "what are you looking for" and
dispense of the issue that way?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Where do we SCO from here?
Authored by: john hrdo on Sunday, January 23 2005 @ 03:24 AM EST
The recent ruling on discovery in the SCO-IBM
litigation is a major tactical win for SCO.
The magistrate agreed to everything they
wanted but for the AIX version tree access.
And she threatened access would be granted if
IBM is less than diligent with the order.

The beauty of it is, IBM cannot comply with
the order. In the run up to the ruling, they
submitted an affidavit by the concerned staff
- namely the staff, that would have to rake
together the mountains of documents SCO
demands. The affidavit said that IBM would
need several months of significant efforts
for all those documents. The magistrate
ignores it and tells IBM to produce
everything within two months. Since it is
very plausible that IBM simply cannot comply
even bending over backwards twice, the choice
for them is to appeal the discovery ruling or
to convince the magistrate that they need
e.g. six months.

Either way, the trial timeline set up by
Judge Kimball is bust. But it would crack
anyway, even the two months delay allowed by
the magistrate will suffice to take it off
the hinges, not even factoring in the
additional delay tricks to be expected from
SCO.

So the trial will have to be postponed to
some time mid 2006. This was the original SCO
request anyway. It was Judge Kimball who
decided that SCO would get less. He set the
trial for November 2005 and declared there
would be no further postponement. Now, he has
lost out to the SCO brigade. Is that a sign
of discord between Magistrate Well and Judge
Kimball or is something special coming up?
Judge Kimball was always good for a surprise.
When SCO was trying to derail IBM's
depositions in May 2004, he offered to change
his own calendar to accommodate them. The
depositions went ahead. In October 2004, he
cut short SCO's cacophony about forcing IBM
to comply with previous orders and soberly
stated that SCO's arguments were puzzling,
there was no previous order IBM was
infringing on.

Let us not be carried away by wishful
thinking, we are not going to see the
extortionists slaughtered. This case will
never go to trial and SCO will find the money
it needs to keep rolling. Yes, according to
their current financial status they are going
to be dry in Summer 2006. But they will spin
off software development, essentially
reducing it to software maintenance for those
5000 customers who are still there and need
many many years to move to a different
platform. Remember SCO tried to trademark
the classic "Unix System Laboratories" in
Summer 2004? They were stopped by the Open
Group that owns the Unix trademark. But they
will find another name and will establish the
spin-off as a subsidiary that can entirely or
partially be sold. With a generous reduction
in head count it will be viable. Here comes
the cash to keep harassing IBM for two more
years.

But why harass IBM since it is as clear as
the sun that they cannot settle with SCO
because it would be suicidal? Well, SCO does
not need to be bought up by IBM or enter into
an agreement with IBM. Novell, Sun, or some
venture capitalists can step in and acquire
control of SCO because they know that *they*
could negotiate with IBM. SCO's interminable
tricks for delaying and their preventive
change-of-control defenses make sense: they
long for a white knight from the bottom of
their pit but it has got to be at conditions
convenient to them and to their shysters.

We are not going to see the extortionists
slaughtered. It is sad but it is better the
trial does not start in the first place. If
an educated, intelligent and mature person
like Magistrate Wells comes up with a bunch
of absurdities after three months under
advisement, imagine this case in the hands of
a dozen poor suckers sitting as jurors.

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCOX prediction....
Authored by: tiger99 on Sunday, January 23 2005 @ 05:14 PM EST
If the investors are as stupid as they have been in the last few days, this should send SCOX down to about $2.50 first thing on Monday.

But if they are being sensible, for which I hold out no hope whatsoever based on previous performance, SCOX will plunge into oblivion and be de-listed.

Somehow I think they will be perverse and rise, at which point I will wonder who is holding the paintbrush....

Tomorrow should be fun, sadly I shall miss the beginning as I am on UK time and will be in the dentist's chair (ugh!)as trading begins.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Attorneys React to Wells' Order -- It's Routine
Authored by: kenryan on Sunday, January 23 2005 @ 07:27 PM EST

It's like any other conversation. I'm sure you've all had discussions with a mate or friend where you explained something perfectly, and they still didn't get it. Our life's dramas are frequently built on such materials, no? It's no different in litigation. You explain to the judge. They don't get it. So you swing around and explain it again, from a different angle, or more simply, or with a different emphasis. That is part of the process.

I put myself through grad school as a teaching assistant, doing Pascal programming and electronic circuits classes.

One thing the prof in charge of the programming class maintained, and I still believe to this day, is if I explain something to someone and he doesn't get it, it's MY fault, not his! My job when teaching some material is to explain it in a way that all my students understand it. I have to account for both students with previous experience (and prejudices) and with no clue whatsoever (the only students who I don't stand a chance with are those who don't care). Sometimes someone will need extra explanations; eventually I was able to pick up on that without being asked (glassy eyes are a good clue). If someone is trying and I can't get through to him, it is I who should get the F.

That carries through into my current career as an electronic designer. If I stand up in a design review and talk about how my system is supposed to work, and I get too many questions, I know it's time to go back to the drawing board since either I am not understanding something or what I came up with was way too complicated.

My point, then, is if Judge Wells didn't get it, then IMHO the IBM lawyers deserve to be spending a few late nights straightening things out...


---
ken
(speaking only for myself, IANAL)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Puzzling the pieces of this story
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, January 23 2005 @ 08:42 PM EST
TSG has no cash flow problem. Canopy, Microsoft, Sun, and others are ready to bale out TSG. Just remember the bogus licenses and Baystar and the secret investors from other countries.

This court order by Judge Wells is distinctly different in style, tone, attitude towards the litigants, and legal formality. For example, it meanders without a clear logical thread. She is communicating between the lines to IBM.

The broken nose, playing both ways, and other references indicate imminent conditions. IBM filing for PSJs is IBM on offense. TSG fighting tooth and nail for discovery is IBM on defense. Broken nose indicates dirty tactics or much worse.

Judge Wells stating TSG's case throughout the order indicates how bad it could get for IBM if logic, legal precedent, and the public good are abandoned by this court. This is Judge Wells' public warning.

[ Reply to This | # ]

If it's so routine, then why 3 months
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, January 23 2005 @ 09:49 PM EST
under advisement? And why didn't wells give scox all of this discovery the first
time scox asked? And why doesn't wells give scox the cmvc right now - there is
no question that scox will start whining about it, there is also no question
that scox will get it eventually.

Also, aren't they going about this backwards? Before IBM is burdened with an
insanely onerous discovy request, shouldn't the magistrate first determine:

1) Does scox even own the code in question?

2) Does IBM not have the right to put homegrown code into Linux?

Then, and only then, if the answer to both of those questions is yes. THEN let
scox go digging though IBM's very valuable and sensitive source code. Why order
millions of dollars worth of discovery, that will take years to analyze, if it's
likely to be moot?

It seem to me that if the courts had taken the time to simply review the
scox/novl contract, and at&t/ibm contract; this case would have been settled
over a year ago.

One final thing. By scox's own admission, there is no way on earth that scox
will be able to analze all that code before scox goes bankrupt and out of
business. So what's the point?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Silverlining: GPLing AIX/Dynix
Authored by: Anonymous on Sunday, January 23 2005 @ 11:27 PM EST
One good thing from this is that its insanely great code review from a legal
standpoint for both AIX and Dynix. At the end of the day when SCO's behind is
fried, IBM will be in a great position to GPL its AIX and Dynix code, thumb its
nose at the MSFud crowd and one up Sun.

emk

[ Reply to This | # ]

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