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IBM Files its Motion for Reconsideration of Wells' Discovery Order
Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 02:04 AM EST

IBM has timely filed its Motion for Reconsideration of the January 18, 2005 Order Re SCO's Renewed Motion to Compel. Our thanks, once again, to the wonderful Steve Martin for the HTML.

The most interesting news is that IBM isn't asking the court to alter its order in regard to production of the AIX and Dynix code. It's going to comply, and it seems to have no problem doing that, although it points out it has never before been asked to do such a thing, and it's a huge undertaking.

I'm guessing that when Judge Kimball said he was inclined to agree with Wells on that point, it may have convinced IBM that it probably wasn't going to be successful in getting them to change their minds, and you have to weigh out the advantages of an appeal as opposed to the expense and effort of filing one, and so I'm thinking they decided to focus on the one issue that they feel it's literally impossible to comply with by the deadline set, in the hopes that the matter can be settled without having to appeal. They are also, however, developing the record for appeal on the one issue they raise in this motion.

Sometimes it's easier to comply with an order than to argue about it, if it's not essential. We now see, by the decision IBM made about what to make an issue of, that IBM doesn't believe that SCO will find a thing in that code, onerous as the task is for IBM to produce it.

IBM also doesn't mind identifying the 3,000 individuals who made the most contributions and changes to AIX and Dynix and to identify the changes they made to AIX and Dynix, insofar as this information is available in CMVC and RCS. And IBM is fine with undertaking a reasonable search for white papers and design documents not found in CMVC or RCS.

The only relief it is asking for is that it asks the Court to reconsider the portion of the Order requiring IBM to search for and produce documents from the files of all those 3,000 individual developers. It says that realistically, it would take more than 6 months to actually do that, and it suggests an alternative: that it produce the massive discovery already agreed to, and then let SCO look through what it gets from IBM and then narrow the focus to those developers it particularly wishes to have discovery about.

In footnote 8, IBM brings to the court's attention two prior cases, where similar discovery was denied, because it was simply duplicative and onerous. It even attaches the cases as exhibits, United States ex rel. Regan v. Medtronic, Inc., where discovery was denied where the "burden ... outweighs the possible relevancy of such evidence ... [in that it requires] Medtronic to contact 5,300 employees and review millions of documents at 70 storage locations over a 20 year period" and Fed Ins. Co. v. Southwestern Wire Cloth, Inc., a case limiting the scope of document requests even where the "requested information was relevant ... [g]iven the potentially thousands of documents implicated." IBM believes it is duplicative and onerous here too, particularly because the CMVC materials already provide the name of the developers who made changes to the code or added code. From that, SCO should be able to figure out which of the 3,000 are the developers whose notes they wish to target.

"Assuming (unrealistically) IBM were able to search for and through the files of 20 people a day," IBM says, "5 days a week, it would require IBM more than 6 months just to search for responsive documents, independent of how long it would take IBM to review the documents for responsiveness, third-party confidential information (and to provide notice to third parties where required), and privilege and prepare them for production." The problem IBM faces is, they told the court how burdensome it would be to turn over the code, and now that the court ordered it anyway, they are doing it, so the court may view their current concerns as something they actually can comply with if ordered to do so, too.

In footnote 4, IBM brings to the court's attention a problem it is having with SCO, who "having been given an inch, . . . seeks to take a mile. SCO has suggested that the Order not only requires IBM to search for and produce documents relating to AIX and Dynix but also requires IBM to detail its Linux contributions." That wasn't in the recent order, IBM points out, and it's publicly available information already, and in the court's March 8, 2004 order, it specifically said IBM wasn't required to produce Linux information that was publicly available. In short, SCO is being unpleasant, and IBM would like the court to know about it and to make clear to SCO the limits of the discovery being required.

SCO will now oppose the motion, and by IBM's including the issue of publicly available Linux contributions in its motion, SCO is now in the position of having to explain to the court why it wants IBM to do its work for it or why it feels it is required. In short, the parties are simply unable to work a thing out between themselves on this point, and so now the court will have to intervene and settle this new dispute.

IBM has made it obvious that they intend to appeal this matter, if necessary. In this motion, they carefully tell the court how they understand the order and what they will be providing. In doing that, they are in effect saying, This is how we understand your order. If you view it differently, please be explicit. That way, they are seeking to head off further disputes about how to interpret the order, and of course they are desirous of limiting the interpretation of the order so as to make it as reasonable as possible to comply with. SCO is now free to say it should be interpreted more broadly. Obviously, they already are, but now they will have to do it publicly and on the record.

IBM also has asked for oral argument on this motion, so they are developing the record for appeal at the same time that they are asking Judge Wells to do the right thing. The two cases IBM has offered the court as exhibits tell the court that IBM believes it will prevail in any such appeal, and it is giving the court an opportunity to make the demands for discovery a little more reasonable itself. This court has been very generous to SCO, way beyond what is usual, IBM seems to be saying, and it now wishes to draw a line in the sand.

******************************

SNELL & WILMER L.L.P.
Alan L. Sullivan (3152)
Todd M. Shaugnessy (6651)
Peter H. Donaldson (9462)
[address]
[phone]
[fax]

CRAVATH, SWAINE & MOORE LLP
Evan R. Chesler (admitted pro hac vice)
David R. Marriott (7572)
[address]
[phone]
[fax]

Attorneys for Defendant/Counterclaim-Plaintiff
International Business Machines Corporation

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF UTAH


THE SCO GROUP, INC.,
Plaintiff/Counterclaim-Defendant,

v.

INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS MACHINES
CORPORATION,
Defendant/Counterclaim-Plaintiff.

IBM'S MOTION FOR
RECONSIDERATION OF THE
JANUARY 18, 2005 ORDER
REGARDING SCO'S RENEWED
MOTION TO COMPEL

(ORAL ARGUMENT REQUESTED)


Civil No. 2:03CV-0294 DAK

Honorable Dale A. Kimball

Magistrate Judge Brooke C. Wells

1

Pursuant to the Court's Order dated February 1, 2005, defendant/counterclaim-plaintiff International Business Machines Corporation ("IBM") respectfully submits the following request for reconsideration of the Court's Order Regarding SCO's Renewed Motion to Compel, dated January 18, 2005 (the "Order") (attached as Exhibit A hereto).1 IBM also respectfully requests oral argument on this motion pursuant to DUCivR 7-01(f).

Preliminary Statement

The Order requires among other things, that IBM produce (1) CMVC and RCS data relating to IBM's AIX and Dynix operating systems (Order at 10); and (2) documents from the 3,000 "individuals who made the most contributions and changes to the development of AIX and Dynix" (collectively here, the "Ordered Production") (Id. at 16).

IBM does not seek the reconsideration of the portion of the Order requiring IBM to produce AIX and Dynix material from CMVC and RCS. 2IBM does not seek reconsideration of the portion of the Order requiring it to identify the individuals who made the most contributions and changes to AIX and Dynix and to identify the changes they made to AIX and Dynix, insofar as this information is available in CMVC and RCS. And IBM does not seek reconsideration of the Order insofar as it requires IBM to undertake a reasonable search (i.e. the files of 40-50 individuals) for white papers and design documents not found in CMVC or RCS. By this

2

application, IBM asks the Court to reconsider the portion of its Order requiring IBM to search for and produce documents from the files of 3,000 individual developers.

Pursuant to the Order, IBM will be producing all of the information in its CMVC and RCS databases relating to IBM's AIX and Dynix operating systems, including source code, the change history of that source code, and programmer's notes and design documents. 3 IBM will also be identifying the individuals who made the most contributions and changes to the development of AIX and Dynix, and the changes they made to AIX and Dynix, insofar as this information is available in CMVC and RCS. IBM will also be undertaking a reasonable search for white papers and design documents not found in CMVC or RCS. Requiring IBM, on top of that, to search for and produce documents from the files of 3,000 developers would impose an extraordinary burden on IBM without any meaningful, offsetting benefit to SCO. Thus, we respectfully request that the Court reconsider this portion of the Order.4

3

Argument

As we understand the Order, the purpose of requiring IBM to search for and produce information from the files of 3,000 developers is to provide SCO with "programmer's notes, design documents, white papers, the comments and notes made by those who did the changes, the names and contact information of individuals who made changes and what changes they specifically made". (Order at 15-16.) However, a search and production of this magnitude is not, we respectfully submit, the best way to achieve this purpose and should not be required.

As stated, IBM will provide SCO with an extraordinary quantity of information regarding the development of AIX and Dynix in producing information from CMVC and RCS.5 CMVC and RCS include, among other things, changes made to AIX and Dynix, comments about the changes, and information about who made that change and when. CMVC and RCS also include extensive programmer's notes and design documents relating to AIX and Dynix. IBM intends also to produce any white papers and design documents found outside of CMVC and RCS after a reasonable search. Thus, IBM's planned production will provide SCO large quantities of the type of information the Court has ordered IBM to search for in the files of 3,000 developers.6

IBM's planned production will not include every scrap of paper that might be found in the files of the 3,000 developers who made the most contributions and changes to the development of AIX and Dynix. However, rather than require IBM to search for and produce

4

documents from 3,000 developers in an effort to capture what might not be included in CMVC and RCS and a reasonable search for design documents and white papers not in CMVC, the Court should defer the production of additional information relating to the development of AIX and Dynix until after SCO has had an opportunity to review the extensive data that IBM will be providing. After reviewing that data, SCO should be able to identify with specificity a reasonable number of developers, if any, from whose files it would like additional production and IBM can then provide the information SCO wants without having to search for, collect and produce redundant and cumulative discovery or discovery in which SCO has no interest. Approaching developer-specific discovery in this way is entirely consistent with the Court's decision early in this case to stage the discovery process.

Moreover, as a practical matter, searching for, reviewing (for responsiveness, third-party confidential information, and privilege) and producing documents from the files of 3,000 people would be a Herculean task. It would be impossible to complete in 6 months, let alone in 60 days, as presently required by the Order.7 Assuming (unrealistically) IBM were able to search for and through the files of 20 people a day, 5 days a week, it would require IBM more than 6 months just to search for responsive documents, independent of how long it would take IBM to review the documents for responsiveness, third-party confidential information (and to provide notice to third parties where required), and privilege and prepare them for production. A search for

5

documents from the files of 3,000 developers would yield millions of pages of paper, much of it duplicative or irrelevant.

It is well settled that discovery should not be allowed, even if relevant, where it is unreasonably cumulative or duplicative or where its production would impose an undue burden. See Fed. R. Civ. P. 26(b)(2)(i) (stating that discovery shall be limited by the Court if "the discovery sought is unreasonably cumulative or duplicative, or is obtainable from some other source that is more convenient, less burdensome, or less expensive"); Fed. R. Civ. P. 26(b)(2)(iii) (stating that discovery shall be limited by the Court if it determines the "burden or expense of the proposed discovery outweights its likely benefit, taking into account the needs of the case, the amount in controversy, the parties' resources, the importance of the issues at stake in the litigation, and the importance of the proposed discovery in resolving the issues").8

In sum, to require IBM to produce documents from 3,000 developers in 60 days, on top of the discovery IBM is already providing, is to compel the impossible, at enormous expense, with no meaningful advantage to SCO. There are far better ways for SCO to obtain the information it seeks, such as by permitting targeted discovery of individual developers to the extent it makes sense after SCO has had an opportunity to review the information IBM is going to provide.

6

Conclusion

For the foregoing reasons, IBM respectfully requests that the Court reconsider and vacate the portion of the Order requiring the production of documents from 3,000 developers in 60 days, without prejudice to SCO seeking reasonably tailored discovery from the files of individual developers after SCO has reviewed the information IBM is going to produce.

DATED this 11th day of February, 2005

SNELL & WILMER L.L.P.

(signature)

Alan L. Sullivan
Todd M. Shaughnessy
Peter H. Donaldson

CRAVATH, SWAINE & MOORE LLP
Evan R. Chesler
David R. Marriott

Attorneys for Defendant/Counterclaim-
Plaintiff International Business Machines
Corporation

Of Counsel:

INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS MACHINES CORPORATION
Donald J. Rosenberg
Alec S. Berman
[address]
[phone]

Attorneys for Defendant/Counterclaim-Plaintiff
International Business Machines Corporation

7

CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE

I hereby certify that on the 11th day of February, 2005, a true and correct copy of IBM's
MOTION FOR RECONSIDERATION OF THE JANUARY 18, 2005 ORDER
REGARDING SCO'S RENEWED MOTION TO COMPEL
was served by U.S. Mail, postage prepaid, on the following:

Brent O. Hatch
Mark F. James
HATCH, JAMES & DODGE, P.C.
[address]
[phone]

Stephen N. Zack
Mark J. Heise
BOIES, SCHILLER & FLEXNER LLP
[address]

Robert Silver
Edward Normand
Sean Eskovitz
BOIES, SCHILLER & FLEXNER LLP
[address]

(signature)

8


1 In making this motion, we are mindful of Judge Kimball's Order dated February 8, 2005. Although Judge Kimball indicated that he agrees, in essence, with the Order, we do not understand his February 8 order specifically to address or to foreclose the relief requested in this motion.

2 IBM understands this portion of the Order, relating to the production of all material relating to AIX and Dynix found in CMVC or RCS, to require the production of material concerning the AIX and Dynix operating systems themselves, not other material in CMVC that only indirectly related to AIX, such as hardware system designs, firmware, manufacturing-related components, and middleware and other software designed to run on top of the AIX or Dynix operating systems.

3 IBM is making every effort to meet the March 18 deadline for complying with the portions of the Order as to which IBM is not seeking reconsideration. While we are hopeful that IBM will be able to meet the deadline for the data in CMVC and RCS, it is very likely that IBM will need to seek additional time to search for and produce white papers and design documents not in CMVC or RCS. IBM has never before had to do what it has been ordered to do, and preparing the material for production is very complicated and time-consuming.

4 We endeavored without success to resolve this matter informally with SCO before bringing this motion. SCO apparently believes that IBM should be required to search for the files of 3,000 AIX and Dynix developers, notwithstanding the size and redundancy of the task. Moreover, having been given an inch, SCO seeks to take a mile. SCO has suggested that the Order not only requires IBM to search for and produce documents relating to AIX and Dynix but also requires IBM to detail its Linux contributions. Not only is that not what the Order provides, but also in an order dated March 3, 2004, the Court expressly ruled that IBM is not required to produce its Linux contributions to SCO insofar as they are publicly available. Nothing about the Order indicates that the Court intended to overrule the March 3, 2004 Order.

5 CMVC and RCS identify, by login ID, developers who made changes to the source code; IBM will separately search for and produce, to the extent it can, the names and contact information of the persons whose login IDs appear in the produced CMVC or RCS data.

6 CMVC has been used in AIX development since 1991. IBM does not maintain revision control information for AIX source code prior to 1991. IBM continues to search for, but has to date been unable to find, any revision control information for AIX source code prior to 1991. In addition, some early versions of Dynix are available only from archived media, and therefore do not include source control information.

7 The magnitude of the task of collecting and producing documents from 3,000 persons becomes clear when contrasted with the document production that has taken place thus far from both IBM and SCO, over the past year and a half of discovery. To date, IBM has produced documents from the files of 174 individuals, while SCO has produced documents from the files of 63 individuals. That is, in a year and a half, SCO and IBM combined have produced responsive documents from the files of 237 persons, less than 10 percent of the 3,000 persons whose documents IBM has been ordered to produce within 60 days.

8 See United States ex rel. Regan v. Medtronic, Inc., No. 95-1236, 2000 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 22565, at *11 (D. Kan. July 7, 2000) (denying discovery where the "burden ... outweighs the possible relevancy of such evidence ... [in that it requires] Medtronic to contact 5,300 employees and review millions of documents at 70 storage locations over a 20 year period.") (attached as Exhibit B hereto); Fed Ins. Co. v. Southwestern Wire Cloth, Inc., No. 95-C-689, 1996 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 22001, at *40 (N.D. Okla. Dec. 9, 1996)(limiting the scope of document requests even where the "requested information was relevant ... [g]iven the potentially thousands of documents implicated") (attached as Exhibit C hereto).


  


IBM Files its Motion for Reconsideration of Wells' Discovery Order | 251 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
Corrections....
Authored by: stan ackroyd on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 03:29 AM EST
...here

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Corrections.... - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 04:53 PM EST
OT here please
Authored by: troll on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 03:36 AM EST
Yours truly ....

[ Reply to This | # ]

IBM tounge in cheek
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 03:57 AM EST
SCO should be able to identify with specificity a reasonable number of developers, *if any*

[ Reply to This | # ]

3,000 persons
Authored by: cmc on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 04:04 AM EST
I'd still like to know how Judge Wells expects IBM to be able to determine which
3,000 developers to product the information for. Heck, I'd think that just
*deciding* which 3,000 out of the 7,200 total would take the full 60 days.

cmc

[ Reply to This | # ]

That's slick
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 04:18 AM EST
In essense, "We are more than willing to provide this massive discovery
dump but we ask that SCO actually examine all billion lines of code so that they
can determine what 3000 developers they want documents from."

And after Judge Kimball's recent ruling which noted SCO's current lack of
presenting hard evidence the argument seems persuasive. It's going to be
interesting to see how SCO will try to argue its way out of this one.

Be it Boies' lawfirm or SCO itself, somebody's wallet is going to feel a mighty
big pinch if Judge Wells agrees to this.

[ Reply to This | # ]

IBM Files its Motion for Reconsideration of Wells' Discovery Order
Authored by: Kaemaril on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 05:00 AM EST

This court has been very generous to SCO, way beyond what is usual, IBM seems to be saying

This surely must go down as the understatement of the century :)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Who is going to pay for this ?
Authored by: markus on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 05:21 AM EST

It looks to me that this discover effort will be a quite expensive undertaking for IBM. Does IBM have to swallow the bill or does SCO has to pay ?

If SCO has to pay for this, is this after the case is closed (and SCO is bancrupt) or right now ?

What's about side effects, like developers spending time on discovery and the next version of AIX getting late because the developers spent time here ?

How would the cost be calculated ?

20 developers working 120 man-days (6 months) are summing up to 2400 man-days. If you buy consulting services from IBM you'll pay around $1500/day, so we are speaking of a 3.6M$ bill. Can IBM calculate like this ?

If this causes a 6 month delay for the next AIX version the damage is probably much bigger !

Markus

Disclosure: I'm working for IBM global services in Switzerland as AIX engineer

---
Markus Baertschi, Switzerland

[ Reply to This | # ]

Could this make the victory all the more solid?
Authored by: CnocNaGortini on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 05:46 AM EST
Could this extra discovery lead to a long-term advantage to FLOSS, by making it
harder for anyone to try related tactics concerning this body of code in the
future?

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • dental floss? - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 12:05 PM EST
    • dental floss? - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 12:30 PM EST
      • dental floss? - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 10:50 PM EST
IBM strategy
Authored by: cerebus on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 06:40 AM EST
The SCO discovery request in one light is simply a move to try and force a
settlement/buyout by IBM to limit the huge cost of this discovery.

Consider that SCO has not been particularly active in the discovery arena. IBM
seems to be saying that sure, we'll give them the code, but lets hold off the
rest of this incredibly large job until they have demonstrated their bona-fides
by *actually* doing some discovery work and coming back with names.

I believe that this response by IBM is a nail in their coffin; they haven't got
the capacity to do this amount of discovery, especially for no result, and they
know it. IBM is limiting the cost to themselves, limiting the appeals
possibilities, and throwing down the gauntlet to SCO: "We will not
settle".

[ Reply to This | # ]

Can IBM Stipulate, that SCO WILL read the materials delivered?
Authored by: dodger on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 06:44 AM EST
As daunting as the producing of all the versions and programmers notes, etc. it
would be nice that SCO be required to REVIEW all the materials deliverd - and
say write a report on each document, thus showing the courts that this was not a
frivilous fishing trip, but a real search for truth and justice. Or perhaps it
is the case that SCO will have to pay IBM for these materials and the time it
took to deliver them, if SCO loses the case.

-- always think positively --

[ Reply to This | # ]

IBM Files its Motion for Reconsideration of Wells' Discovery Order
Authored by: Steve Martin on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 06:48 AM EST

What jumped out at me was this statement:

"However, rather than require IBM to search for and produce documents from 3,000 developers in an effort to capture what might not be included in CMVC and RCS and a reasonable search for design documents and white papers not in CMVC, the Court should defer the production of additional information relating to the development of AIX and Dynix until after SCO has had an opportunity to review the extensive data that IBM will be providing." (emphasis added)

We've discussed here before the problems TSG might have if granted this enormous discovery. It seems IBM agrees, and is politely telling the judge "Look, they have as much as admitted they haven't done any code comparisons because the size of the job is prohibitive, now they want all this extra code to look through. Okay. Make them look through it before they complain any more."

(Of course, Judge Wells has told them this in the past. Remember this?

"Following the production, SCO is to provide additional memoranda to this Court indicating if and how these files support its position and how they are relevant. The memorandum is to include with specificity, and to the extent possible, identification of additional files SCO requests and the reasons for such requests. The court will then consider ordering IBM to produce more code from AIX and Dynix."

As far as I know, TSG never provided this memorandum to the Court, they simply came back and cried for more lines of code.)

---
"When I say something, I put my name next to it." -- Isaac Jaffee, "Sports Night"

[ Reply to This | # ]

The jungle's getting restless...
Authored by: warner on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 07:24 AM EST
There seems to be a full court press on to marginalize Free Software and co-opt
the discussion to ground that Commercial entities can co-op (oops sorry,
"participate in").

This will will be far smoother than MS's comming into the room and shooting the
place up, ala "GPL is cancer".

The line is: "Meta-communities", "community of communities",
oh and by the way "our" "meta-community" is mostly *not*
Free Software developers, users advocates.

That's just in the addled minds of a disproportionately loud minority.

Divide and conquer time, though it seems the only ones needing dividing are the
Free Software "minority", the rest of the Open Sourcers, please, don't
stop coding.



---
free software, for free minds and a free world.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Precedent for nationwide discovery quagmire
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 08:45 AM EST

Yes, this is burdensome, but it seems to be without precedent. If every company
has to go through this kind of thing, then SCO will indeed have won an important
victory -- using discovery as a bludgeon to blackmail their victims. The lawyers
that specialize in this kind of thing must be dancing on their desks.

Would Kimball and Wells require this of Microsoft? What is required of IBM
should be required of Microsoft, too. Or perhaps IBM can use this precedent as a
weapon against Microsoft. (What would be a hoot is if Microsoft files an amicus
brief in support of IBM's position on discovery.)

One thing seems certain, though: Companies all over the country will look at
this and decide they'll need nuclear-powered shredders.

[ Reply to This | # ]

There was no re-education here.
Authored by: rao on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 09:08 AM EST

The biggest thing to me in Judge Wells order was the astonishing level of cluelessness. Now sometimes a statement like that is very subjective and open to argument. In this case however, the way that she used term "homegrown code" showed beyond any doubt that she did not understand a very fundamental concept in this case. I find it very surprising that IBM did not take the opportunity to address this issue.

I guess since they decided not to argue about the production of the code they decided not to bring this up. I really don't know how they would have done it without embarrassing the judge so maybe that was a factor. Does not addressing this issue at the earliest opprotunity hurt IBM somewhere down the road though?

[ Reply to This | # ]

How does this unbelievable order...
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 09:27 AM EST
effect the schedule? I know that SCO's game is to delay as long as possible -
but I expected this case to be settled sometime before the end of this century.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Questions about analyzing discovery.
Authored by: rao on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 09:39 AM EST

I understand that SCO employees are not allowed to examine the discovery materials. Is there any oversight on who does get to see it? Could Darl's second cousin or Stowells best friend from high school be hired for this job? Could employees of another Canopy Group company be hired?

If the judge had doubts about their ability or their interest in analyzing the discovery, could she order SCO to produce a plan on how they are going to use the materials? This could include the number of people hired, there names and qualifications, how long the analysis would take, what methodology they would use to examine the code, etc. I know I would love to see SCO explain how they were going to do this. :)

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT: Delisting; SCOX to become SCOXE?
Authored by: belzecue on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 09:50 AM EST
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1102542/000110465905007114/a05-3796_1ex99
d1.htm

THE SCO GROUP, INC. RECEIVES NOTICE FROM

NASDAQ REGARDING POTENTIAL DELISTING AND INTENDS TO APPEAL



LINDON, Utah–February 17, 2005–The SCO Group, Inc. (SCOX), announced today that
on February 16, 2005, the Company received a notice from the staff of The Nasdaq
Stock Market indicating that the Company is subject to potential delisting from
The Nasdaq SmallCap Market for failure to comply with Nasdaq’s requirements to
file its Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended October 31, 2004 in a timely
fashion, as required under Market Place Rule 4310(c)(14). Receipt of the notice
does not result in immediate delisting of the Company’s Common Stock.



Nasdaq stated that, unless the Company requests a hearing on Nasdaq’s delisting
notice, the Company’s securities will be delisted from the Nasdaq SmallCap
Market at the opening of business on February 25, 2005. As of the opening of
business on February 18, 2005, an “E” will be appended to the end of the
Company’s trading symbol for its securities. Therefore, commencing on February
18, 2005, the trading symbol for the Company’s common stock will be changed from
“SCOX” to “SCOXE”.



The Company expects to make a request for a hearing with the Nasdaq Listing
Qualifications Panel to appeal the Nasdaq staff’s determination. This request
will stay the delisting pending the hearing and a determination by the Nasdaq
Listing Qualifications Panel. There can be no assurance that the Panel will
grant the Company’s request for continued listing.



The Company has been unable to file its Form 10-K for the fiscal year ended
October 31, 2004 because it continues to examine certain matters related to the
issuance of shares of the Company’s common stock pursuant to its equity
compensation plans. The Company is working to resolve these matters as soon as
possible and expects to file its Form 10-K upon completion of its analysis.

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Footnote 2 vs Footnote 4 (another coming dispute?)
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 09:56 AM EST
A lot of comment has been made on footnote 4, and SCO wanting IBM to produce
IBM's Linux contributions

I think it is worth reading footnote 2 carefully too.

You should notice that it says how IBM understands the order. It says nothing
about how SCO understands the order.

While this may simply be that IBM doesn't want to put words into SCO's mouth -
it's is also possible that SCO really does see this issue differently.

If SCO does see this issue differently from IBM, what would it mean? It would
mean SCO would also want information in CMVC related to at least some of
hardware designs, firmware, software running on top of AIX, etc.

And if SCO did want this apparently totally unrelated information what would it
mean? Well, personally, I opine that it could tell us quite a lot about SCO's
*real* goal in seeking the maximum amount of discovery possible.

So - the question is - Are SCO going to ask for more material related to
footnote 2, too?

I look forward to SCO's reply memo to find out

Quatermass
IANAL IMHO etc


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Environmental Impact
Authored by: CustomDesigned on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 10:17 AM EST
How is all this code going to be delivered? The amount of paper involved wouldn't fit in the courtroom. Would this be a good application for the new biodegradable BlueRay paper DVD format (25G per disk - biodegradable in the presence of moisture)? I hate to think of all those plastic CDs wasting our resources and creating a huge disposal problem.

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IBM Files its Motion for Reconsideration of Wells' Discovery Order
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 10:40 AM EST
Didn't IBM provide expert testimony earlier that providing all the relevant CMVC
data would not be possible in any short time frame? If so, how do they reconcile
this with agreeing to Wells' data for delivery of the CMVC data?

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The sting in the tail
Authored by: codswallop on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 12:12 PM EST
IBM could have fought this on any number of grounds with some reasonable chance
of winning. They didn't, so they have clearly made a tactical decision that this
will produce the best result.

I can only think of 2 possibilities:

1) They intend to ask for SCO to pay for all or part of the discovery. There's
ample precedent for this. Moreover, IBM have set a trap. I doubt they care
whether they lose the part about the 3000 programmers. What they may want to do
is to get their case in the record for how extreme, unusual and expensive the
burden will be.

The cost would be astronomical to have lawyers review all that material for
privilege, relevance and 3rd party clearance in a short time. IBM would have to
bring in hordes of lawyers - say 3000 files * 10hrs $400/hr = $1.2 million.
Probably $2 million + including all costs, maybe more, IANAL, so my feel for
this isn't great. What I do know is SCO has a $5 million budget for all
expenses for all the cases, some of which it has already spent. If they spend $3
million on this AIX discovery (IBM will go for the CMVC costs too and anything
else they can toss in), they're hurting. They still have to pay more lawyers and
analysts to review the stuff, which they have an obligation to do or the
discovery would not be in good faith. They still have expenses for experts and
depositions and have scarcely begun to deal with the patent claims (more
experts, depositions and discovery).

To pay for this, SCO will have to dip into their cash. They can only do this if
the core business stays cashflow positive - that is if they can lay people off
faster than they lose customers and still be able to service the remaining ones.
Going SCOXE won't help build customer confidence, nor will the Canopy mess. The
$5 million escrow may be all there is to spend on expenses.

2) IBM may ask Judge K. to reconsider his ruling on dispositive motions if SCO's
big discovery "win" pushes the deadline out 6 months or longer. IBM
have a right to use the summary judgement process (Judge K. ruled so earlier).
If the end of discovery is far away, its unfair to them not to allow them to
proceed with what is ripe. By his ruling, the copyright issue isn't, because
it's predicated on the meaning of the contract. The psj on the contract claims
is a different story. Judge K. didn't really address that issue in his ruling.
It wasn't fully briefed. If there is no more discovery on that, then there is no
reason to make IBM wait six months. By pushing out discovery, SCO are giving
Judge K. grounds to reconsider.

If SCO lose that psj, the case and SCO are history. That would make the
copyright psj ripe, and the dominoes would fall.


---
IANAL This is not a legal opinion.
SCO is not a party to the APA.
Discovery relevance is to claims, not to sanity.

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A man made hole in the ground ....
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 12:29 PM EST
... is called a shaft. And it is now my opinion that,
that is what IBM has now been given by the judges in
this case.

TSCOG, according to Judge Kimball, "... has not offered
any competent evidence to create a disputed fact regarding
whether IBM has infringed SCO's alleged copyrights through
IBM's Linux activities." And inspite of this fact Judge
Wells has basically ordered that IBM give TSOG everything,
including the kitchen sink.

So, at the begining TSCOG brought this case with NO
competent evidence. After getting what they asked for
in discovery, in the first round, they still have not
shown ANY competent evidence. In each and every case
that TSCOG has asked for further discovery, they again in
each case, continue to NOT show ANY competent evidence.

Judge Wells just keeps caveing in to TSCOG's demands
for more discovery. And IBM just keeps giving it to them.
Inspite of the fact that TSCOG has not, as they have been
told they must do, even told IBM or the court just what
it is that this suit is all about.

This "man made hole in the ground" just keeps getting
deeper and deeper. And IBM just keeps getting more and
more of it stuck to them.

Ya just got to love it.

George

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IBM now talks about files rather than releases
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 01:29 PM EST
Using RCS (and probably CMVC) it should be pretty easy to trace changes to a
given file over it's life. It should also be fairly easy to identify any third
party content on a file by file basis.

Releases are much harder to deal with when you want every one.

Also they are attempting to limit the scope to information that is currently
online.

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Hmm is that fire I smell :-) SCO Implosion or SCO the Phoenix
Authored by: dmarker on Thursday, February 17 2005 @ 05:44 PM EST
One could justifiably believe SCO, is about to implode in a big puff of smoke.

My guess is that SCO will get de-listed because it can't meet its filing
obligations. This in turn implies SCO already has serious problems regarding its
cash flow.

But until this happens, there is always the potential for SCO to rise
phoenix-like from these ashes. This doesn't look likely but is not impossible
depending on if there are other organisations willing to find ways to keep SCO
afloat.

Should SCO collapse and go bankrupt before the lawsuit ends, there is the
question of SCO's assets and 'claimed' assets. Also SCO would duck any potential
payout to IBM if IBM were to win its counter claims.

Lets also assume that Canopy have assessed the probability of IBM winning their
countersuit, and decided it is highly probable. Then if SCO collapses before a
pro IBM judgement, Canopy may be protected from having to cover a large part of
the money awarded to IBM through its counter claims to SCO's lawsuit.

I can see a significant value to Canopy to collapse SCO right now.

Endgame.

Just my 0.02c worth on this entertaining saga.

Cheers Doug Marker

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