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IBM's Reply Memo in Support of Their Motion for Reconsideration
Thursday, March 17 2005 @ 11:12 AM EST

No exploding PJ today, because IBM has indeed pointed out to the judge that SCO is now claiming [PDF] in its opposition to this motion that IBM has to turn over information on Linux, as if the Order said that, another example of SCO trying to stretch every discovery order beyond its four corners. (SCO said it also even more baldly in their Memorandum in Opposition to IBM's Motion for 45-Day Extension of Time to Comply with 1/18/05 Order.)

Here is IBM's Reply Memorandum in Support of IBM's Motion for Reconsideration of the January 18, 2005 Order Regarding SCO's Renewed Motion to Compel [PDF] and they tell the judge all about it. And they'd like to have oral argument on this motion anyway, so we'll have lots more fun, I'm sure.

Here's part of what IBM tells the court. First, it says they are NOT asking for reconsideration regarding turning over all the code. They are turning over more than the order even asked for, which ought to tell you just how much infringement they think SCO is going to be able to find, namely zero. They are turning over the 3,000 names and identifying their contributions to AIX and Dynix as per CMVC and RCS records. And they are turning over white papers and design documents there as well. All they are asking for is some adjustment regarding the 3,000 employees' files. But then they tell the judge exactly what I hoped they would:

"In addition to responding to IBM's motion for reconsideration, SCO seeks through its opposition brief to expand IBM's production obligations beyond those imposed by the Order. In fact, SCO takes a run at securing an order that would require the production of information SCO has never before requested and that the Court has ruled IBM need not produce. . . .

"SCO uses its opposition brief not only to oppose IBM's motion for reconsideration, but also to complain about imagined shortcomings of IBM's forthcoming production and to secure an order requiring IBM to produce information that either SCO never requested or that the Court has ruled SCO is not entitled to and IBM need not produce. . . .

"SCO argues that the Order also requires IBM to identify its Linux contributions. . . . It would be difficult to overstate the frivolity of this contention, which is entirely unsupported by the record. In an Order dated March 3, 2004, the Court ruled . . . that IBM would not be required to detail its Linux contributions insofar as those contributions were publicly available. . . . The Court ordered only that IBM 'provide to SCO any and all non-public contributions it has made to Linux.' . . . IBM fully complied with this portion of the March 3, 2004 order.

"SCO seizes on the Court's quotation of SCO's Interrogatory No. 5, which interrogatory includes the term 'Linux', to argue that the Court's order of January 18, 2005, reversed the March 3, 2004 order and, without explanation or analysis, replaced it with a new order requiring IBM to produce the public Linux contributions that the Court previously ruled (for good reason) that IBM would not be required to produce."

The Order merely quoted verbatim the interrogatory, IBM points out. The rest of the Order obviously relates only to AIX and Dynix, not Linux, they add. But here comes SCO, demanding a mile when they get an inch. The Order states that "IBM is to provide the above required information for the 3,000 individuals who made the most contributions and changes to the development of AIX and Dynix." As we pointed out in the previous article, SCO quotes that text but adds "and Linux." IBM has a lot more to say too. Let's take a look.

First, in footnote 1, they tell Judge Wells that the order wasn't totally clear to IBM. Maybe she didn't even mean that IBM was to search the files of 3,000 individual developers. If that is the case, the current motion is moot. Maybe she meant to produce "information relating to, but not necessarily from the individual files of" these persons, and if so, what IBM is producing from CMVC and RCS should suffice.

I think this paragraph is sincere. The order wasn't clear. But in any case, it does give the judge a tactful way of limiting the order even if originally she did kind of mean pawing through the individual files of 3,000 people.

SCO argued that IBM didn't have the right to even ask for reconsideration. However, IBM points out that Judge Kimball already decided that point, and anyway, "a motion for reconsideration may properly be made to correct clear error or to prevent manifest injustice." If the court did mean to search for and produce documents from the files of 3,000 individuals, it is, IBM says, "clear error and imposes manifest injustice."

SCO also argued that IBM had plenty of opportunites to argue undue burden. IBM begs to differ. It argued undue burden with regard to SCO's requests for AIX and Dynix information, and in fact the court did not give SCO all that they asked for -- access to CMVC and RCS -- but there hasn't been a complete discussion yet about the 3,000 files. In fact, IBM says it doesn't think the judge "fully understood the burden" associated with such a search. SCO cited no cases saying such a search would be reasonable, and IBM can't find any cases either. This is letting the judge know that she is standing, like a cartoon character, suddenly with no support under her feet. Does she really want to be the first judge ever to order such a thing? With no case law to support her?

SCO also said IBM should have provided an affidavit to support its burden argument. IBM kind of mocks that, saying the burden is self-evident, and it cites a case that supports their view, one where a court ruled that no affidavit is required "to support what appears obvious." If the court wants an affidavit, IBM is happy to supply one. Anyway, IBM already told the court that to comply with this part of the Order, if it means to search the individuals' files, if they handled 20 individuals a day, it would require 6 months just to find and review them, get third-party waivers, etc. And that isn't even counting the time it would next take the attorneys to review and prepare the documents for production.

This paragraph is to me an example of the SCO legal team's approach. Let me explain. Normally, any motion requires affidavits in support of the facts in the motion. It's standard. IBM knows this, of course, but it didn't view this fact -- that it's really a massive job being asked of them -- as a fact needing support. I think it was a small mistake. Because SCO, which has the empathy of a drooling hyena at a lion kill, latches on to every single pukey little detail for an edge. It's how they have done as well as they have, actually. No one likes them, including the judges, I think, but they keep throwing out more little points that have to be dealt with. No mercy. No gentlemen's understandings. No limits of absurdity. IBM is from the gentlemen's school of lawyering. So, while SCO is making a point that is technically correct, if you squint your eyes a bit, normally it wouldn't even be raised. Now that they've raised it, IBM has to answer it. I doubt they'll overlook the tiniest detail in the future, after this demonstration by SCO of their tactical approach to lawyering. At this point nothing major is likely to be decided on a technicality like this. It is more a harrassment thing. At least, that is how I see it. But in this little frame, I see the Boies Schiller style in microcosm.

IBM spells out those tactics in this document. On SCO's claim that the Order requires IBM to turn over hardware and middleware info too, IBM says this:

"This argument too is baseless. . . . The information IBM is excluding could be said to relate to AIX and Dynix only in the remote -- and here irrelevant -- sense that it concerns software and hardware that is compatible with AIX or Dynix. Firmware is code in computer hardware that executes below the interface between the hardware device and the computer's software, including its operating system. Software applications, including 'middleware', are computer programs that run on top of an operating system. Similarly, hardware systems designs and manufacturing-related components are also distinct from the AIX or Dynix operating systems themselves. None of this information is in any way relevant to SCO's allegations that IBM improperly disclosed portions of its AIX and Dynix operating systems. SCO's discovery requests do not even seek the production of material it contends (for the first time in its opposition brief) that IBM should be producing. Requiring IBM to produce information like middleware on the grounds that it can run on AIX would be like requiring a football team to produce information about its stadium, training equipment, uniforms and mascot in a case in which the team was alleged to have misappropriated an opponent's playbook."

Notice the football reference? Remember the January 18th order's football metaphor. IBM learns from experience, I would deduce. They are speaking in a language they hope the judge will grasp, I note they also are now carefully explaining all technical terminology. This is wise. The only thing I would want to see from IBM is more emotion. It seems to go over very well in Utah, if you protest loudly and with lower lip atremble. So I hope they try that too before this is over.


  


IBM's Reply Memo in Support of Their Motion for Reconsideration | 106 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
Corrections here please.
Authored by: red floyd on Thursday, March 17 2005 @ 12:56 PM EST
So PJ can find them.

---
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a *CITIZEN* of the United
States of America.

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT Here Please
Authored by: red floyd on Thursday, March 17 2005 @ 12:58 PM EST
Remember to make those links clickable!

Use "HTML Formatted" posting mode, and your links look like this:

<A HREF="http://www.example.com">clickable link</A>.

Don't forget the "http://" part of it, or the link won't work!


---
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a *CITIZEN* of the United
States of America.

[ Reply to This | # ]

IBM's Reply Memo in Support of Their Motion for Reconsideration
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 17 2005 @ 01:03 PM EST
Pray tell, why lower yourself to the opponents level?

[ Reply to This | # ]

IBM's Reply Memo in Support of Their Motion for Reconsideration
Authored by: TerryL on Thursday, March 17 2005 @ 01:08 PM EST
The only thing I would want to see from IBM is more emotion. It seems to go over very well in Utah, if you protest loudly and with lower lip atremble. So I hope they try that too before this is over.

I hope they don't - let them stay "grown-up" and leave the childish tantrums and attention seaking to the "local yokels".

---
All comment and ideas expressed are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of any other idiot...

[ Reply to This | # ]

Footnote 5 - SCO's examination of IBM production to date
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 17 2005 @ 01:16 PM EST
5. SCO misrepresents IBM's previous answers to SCO's Interrogatory No. 5. SCO's stastement that IBM simply identified a list of 7,200 individuals who "may have" made contributions to Linux is incorrect. IBM provided a list of 328 individuals (with full contact information) whom IBM believed to have made contributions to Linux. This list of 328 Linux developers was separate from the lists of persons who had access to or worked on developing AIX or Dynix.


What does this tell us?

Well IMHO:

IMH, I can think of two likely alternatives (assuming IBM did provide such a list as they say they did):

1. SCO knowingly deliberately misrepresented the discovery that they had received from IBM

2. SCO didn't know what discovery that they had received from IBM (since this 328 list is more recent than the 7,200 list that was discussed in March 2004).

I find option 1 somewhat hard to believe, because it's so far off the mark, and so easy for IBM to point out, that no matter how manipulative SCO might be, I don't think they'd risk it. Particularly, since they have other discovery issues to pound on - and particularly since a misrepresentation of this sort, would be exposed, and SCO would know it would be exposed.

Therefore IMHO, I would speculate option 2 must be more likely... which to me, IMHO, rather suggests, that SCO is not putting even basic effort into reviewing IBM production (I would think the list of names etc., would be easier and quicker to review than code and so on).

Thoughts anybody?

Quatermass
IANAL IMHO etc

[ Reply to This | # ]

You sure about that?
Authored by: raynfala on Thursday, March 17 2005 @ 01:20 PM EST
The only thing I would want to see from IBM is more emotion. It seems to go over very well in Utah, if you protest loudly and with lower lip atremble. So I hope they try that too before this is over.

Eh, why lower their standards? Next thing you know, one side will be chanting "Crybaby, crybaby..." at the next hearing. :^}

--Raynfala

[ Reply to This | # ]

Fishing for something specific..
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 17 2005 @ 01:21 PM EST
SCO asking for middleware/hardware now is furthur proof of what was said when
they asked for access to CMVC and RCS, that they know there is no infringement
in linux, they are fishing for code/specifications/information for someone who
isn't concerned with repercussions after the fact if they can get a chance to
raid IBM's IP.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Do judges actively avoid decisions?
Authored by: whoever57 on Thursday, March 17 2005 @ 01:35 PM EST
It seems to me, from watching this and the related cases, that the greatest skill a judge can have in the US judicial system, is to avoid making decisions.

Clearly, if the judge does not make decisions, then s/he cannot be reversed by an appeals court.

Is my observation correct? What do other people think about this?

[ Reply to This | # ]

No case law to support her.
Authored by: mhoyes on Thursday, March 17 2005 @ 01:38 PM EST
This is letting the judge know that she is standing, like a cartoon character, suddenly with no support under her feet. Does she really want to be the first judge ever to order such a thing? With no case law to support her?

Looking at it logically, there must always be a first time that a judge orders something, else how can case law ever be expanded or created.

From the other side of the coin however, I would think that any new case law created would need to be firmly grounded in existing case law, with a clear precident for so ordering.

So the question is, as IANAL, is there no precident that can be used to bring the order closer to case law? If not, then I would say the IBM has a right to raise an issue with it, respectfully of course.

meh

[ Reply to This | # ]

IBM's Reply Memo in Support of Their Motion for Reconsideration
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 17 2005 @ 01:52 PM EST
"Requiring IBM to produce information like middleware on
the grounds that it can run on AIX would be like requiring
a football team to produce information about its stadium,
training equipment, uniforms and mascot in a case in which
the team was alleged to have misappropriated an opponent's
playbook."

maybe I'm over sensitive but this silly little analogy
is a clearl lampoon of the judge's ridiculous football
remark. I hope Judge Wells takes this the right way.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Watch out, the Nazgul are annoyed!
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 17 2005 @ 05:10 PM EST
Now that they've raised it, IBM has to answer it. I doubt they'll overlook the tiniest detail in the future, after this demonstration by SCO of their tactical approach to lawyering.

I strongly suspect that what will now happen is that IBM's team will put some significant time into *really* going after detail. They can play this game much better than anyone else and have done so in the past. They may very well be saying to themselves, "Here are some people who really need to be taught a lesson about details". If they want to, they can bring the SCO team to the end of their fees cap in a heck of a hurry!

[ Reply to This | # ]

IBM's Reply Memo in Support of Their Motion for Reconsideration
Authored by: 1N8 M4L1C3 on Thursday, March 17 2005 @ 05:12 PM EST
Not to be disrespectful, but me thinks we're well beyond the inch and mile
routine here....

SCOXE originally asked for a mile - the court gave them an inch; SCOXE whines
about IBM only giving them an inch - so the court gives them a mile; SCO now
whines IBM didn't give them a light-year....

IMHO, the court now has sufficient grounds to seriously consider invocation of
Section 1927 against the SCOXE legal team.

Rightly, IBM has taken the high road here - by requesting the court clarify
exactly what SCOXE is entitled to [and not entitled to, as such the case be].

I fully expect the court will hear oral arguements on this motion - and SCOXE's
legal team will be leaving with their Gluteus Maximus handed to them.

---
On the 7th day, Linus saw that which he created and it was good... ...on the
8th day SCO litigated.

[ Reply to This | # ]

IBM claims they can't find any AIX source code before 1991?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 17 2005 @ 10:00 PM EST
THIS WAS POSTED ON A YAHOO IBM EMPLOYEES BOARD:

In "IBM's Reply Memo in Support of Their Motion for Reconsideration",
the confusing statement IBM said was this:

"IBM has been unable to locate revision control
information for AIX source code prior to 1991, but
IBM continues to search for such information. If IBM
finds any pre-1991 AIX source code IBM will produce it
for SCO."

I'm confused...because TWO DIFFERENT THINGS ARE MENTIONED
HERE;
A. "REVISION CONTROL INFORMATION" (this is usually comment
strings at the TOP of a 'C' .h (include file) or .c source
code file
B. "Pre-1991 AIX SOURCE CODE"

Now, I can understand IBM not finding any (A) revision
control code, because I watched IBM programmers just strip
COPYRIGHT headers OFF "C" include *.h (aka header) files in
Palo Alto, and so there was no revision control
information...it was deleted! But IBM states "If IBM finds
any pre-1991 AIX source code IBM will produce it
for SCO?" How hard is source code (B) to find? That can't
be hard at all...

What happened to the source code for AIX PS/2 ? Why can't
IBM find that? HINT IBM LAWYERS: It RUNS ON INTEL...PS/2
386 and 486 vintage boxes! It's probably on some of those
stupid 3.5" diskettes like the 60 diskettes it took to load
AIX PS/2 from! That was pre-1991 AIX code!

In fact, if I recall, the AIX source code was available for
customer purchase for the outrageous price of like $40,000
(or maybe this was ACIS 4.2 source, I can't remember) since
it was based on a Berkely kernel and not Austin TX AIX/RT
based on a a System V kernel.

And the source code for AIX/370 ? Both AIX PS/2 and AIX/370
were via Locus Computing Corporation in Calif and the IBM
Palo Alto group working together. Where are those people now?

In fact, technically, AIX RT code is pre-1991 source code
too! Where is that? (HINT IBM LAWYERS: I have a 1.2
megabyte 5 1/4" drive you can use with my PS/2 Model
30-486 ...you can borrow it if you need it!) And there is probably even some
ACIS 4.2 code buried in AIX RT.

There was an IBM Director in Palo Alto who I recall "constantly looked the
other way" and said to his
programming team leaders: "JUST MAKE IT WORK, I DON'T WANT
TO KNOW, DON'T TELL ME."...while full time IBM programmers and contract
programmers from places like MIT (a "Richard B." comes to mind who
worked on the DEC-IBM Athena/X-
Windows project) lifted code from places outside IBM...they lifted code to get
AIX/370 to work. Anybody remember this?

Anybody remember the names of some of those IBM Palo Alto
and Locus Computing Corp people?

[ Reply to This | # ]

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