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IBM Reply Memo in Further Support of Motion for Order Limiting Scope of 9th CC - as text
Wednesday, April 06 2005 @ 03:05 AM EDT

Here's IBM's Reply Memorandum in Further Support of Motion for Order Limiting Scope of Ninth Counterclaim [PDF] as text. Between all the sealed documents and the intricacy of the legal arguments being made, it's nearly impossible to be sure of all that is going on. One thing is clear, however. It's all about an attempt by SCO to get to file its 3rd Amended Complaint, the one about AIX on POWER.

Remember I told you, when IBM filed their motion seeking to limit the scope of their 9th counterclaim, that eventually we'd figure out what it was about? So it is. This document gives us the clearest picture we've had yet of what this motion is all about.

I'd have to read all the sealed documents, including the October hearings transcript, to tell you who I think might prevail in this motion, but you can't avoid the distinct impression that IBM believes SCO's arguments are, well, silly. The document drips of disdain. Silly, but also annoying, if the court takes them seriously. SCO is apparently trying to squeeze through a gate blocking their entry to being able to file a 3rd amended complaint, like in New York City where I have seen guys try to squeeze behind the person ahead of them, so as to make use of the guy's token to get into the subway free. It's past the deadline for anyone to amend any further pleadings, IBM points out. So SCO is making the tortured argument that it can amend, because IBM's 9th counterclaim is about copyright infringement, and SCO's new claim, if allowed to amend, is about copyright infringement. Voila! They hope to get past the barrier piggybacking on IBM's 9th Counterclaim.

IBM, naturally, is trying to shake them off their back. First, they point out, SCO said that their copyright infringement claims had to do with IBM's continuing to market AIX post-SCO's "termination". Their 9th Counterclaim addressed that accusation and that accusation only. Now, SCO is trying to interpret IBM's counterclaim as a broad umbrella under whose shade SCO would like to plant their new claim about AIX on POWER.

"Hold on, there," IBM says, in essence. "SCO's attorneys are too cute by half. We are the masters of our own counterclaim, and so we get to say what it is and isn't about. We didn't bring any such counterclaim, and we don't intend to. Our counterclaim is strictly and narrowly about post-termination activities, and SCO's new hoped-for claim is about pre-termination activities, and they can't now try to stretch it to cover both. Anyway, if they want to bring that claim, they have to do it in New York, by contract, and it's too late anyhow. If we feel like it, we can even drop the 9th counterclaim, so there is no way SCO can force us to bring a counterclaim broadly interpreted by SCO as a backdoor into a 3rd amended counterclaim."

IBM's footnote 2 says it all:

In footnote 3 of its opposition papers, SCO effectively concedes that the only reason it opposes this motion is as a means of gaining leave to file its proposed new claim for copyright infringement. SCO states that it would not oppose a motion by IBM to "amend" the Ninth Counterclaim so long as SCO is free to amend its complaint. In fact, that is exactly why SCO fomented this dispute. But this motion is not about "amending" the pleadings. As a master of its counterclaim, IBM is free to prosecute its claim as it wishes, including by not prosecuting the claim at all. The purpose of this motion is to underscore IBM's intent as to the Ninth Counterclaim and to put an end to SCO's tactical efforts to misconstrue it.

To follow along, you may wish to refer to IBM's motion, the hearing notes from the October hearing, IBM's Ninth and Tenth Counterclaims, and SCO's Second Amended Complaint. SCO's memorandum in opposition to IBM's motion is under seal.

I know. It's getting complex. So let's review a bit.

1. SCO's 2nd Amended Complaint, in its Fifth Cause of Action, charged IBM with continuing to market AIX and Dynix post-termination notice from SCO:

175. Despite termination of such Agreements, IBM has continued to reproduce, prepare derivative works of, and distribute UNIX software, source code, object code, programming tools, and documentation related to UNIX operating system technology, and has induced others to do the same. . . .

179. IBM's breaches of the IBM Related Agreements and the Sequent Agreements and its post-termination actions have infringed, have induced infringement of, and have contributed to the infringement of, copyright registrations of SCO and its predecessors. Such actions have been willful and have been done with knowledge of the copyright rights of SCO.

2. IBM believed it was innocent of the accusation, and in direct response to SCO's Fifth Cause of Action, it asked, in its Ninth Counterclaim, that the Court declare that its continued marketing of AIX and Dynix was not copyright infringement:

164. SCO has sued IBM claiming that IBM has infringed, induced the infringement of, and contributed to the infringement of, SCO's purported UNIX copyrights by, among other things, continuing to "reproduce, prepare derivative works of, and distribute" copyrighted UNIX materials through its activities relating to AIX and Dynix.

165. IBM does not believe that its activities relating to AIX and Dynix including any reproduction, improvement and distribution of AIX and Dynix, infringe, induce the infringement of, or contribute to the infringement of valid, enforceable copyrights owned by SCO.

166. An actual controversy exists between SCO and IBM as to the noninfringement of SCO's copyrights and the validity of any purported SCO copyrights concerning UNIX.

167. IBM is entitled to a declaratory judgment pursuant to 28 U. C. Section 2201 that IBM does not infringe, induce the infringement of, or contribute to the infringement of any SCO copyright through the reproduction, improvement, and distribution of AIX and Dynix, and that some or all of SCO' s purported copyrights in UNIX are invalid and unenforceable.

3. IBM also has a Tenth Counterclaim, which asks the court to declare that its Linux-related activities do not constitute copyright infringement:

170. SCO has sued IBM claiming that IBM has infringed, induced the infringement of, and contributed to the infringement of, SCO's purported UNIX copyrights by, among other things, continuing to "reproduce, prepare derivative works of, and distribute copyrighted UNIX materials through its activities relating to Linux.

4. At the October hearing, SCO attorney Sean Eskovitz argued that SCO needed all the code and access to CMVC because of IBM's 9th counterclaim. Here's what Groklaw's eyewitnesses reported about their argument:

SCO's position was that they need the discovery in connection with their contract claims, and they seemed to be distancing themselves from Linux and talking more about IBM and whether or not they had the right to use AIX code, which SCO defines in totality as derivative of Unix System V, something IBM obviously disputes, for AIX Power platform. SCO needs the discovery because of IBM's counterclaim 9. SCO wants to show that IBM overstepped their license in their use of AIX code to AIX Power. [Marriott had already said IBM was willing to stipulate that counterclaim 9 was limited to whether or not IBM infringed SCO's copyrights in AIX and Dynix, excluding the Power platform, an issue that obviously was not being contemplated anyway when IBM wrote the counterclaim, because it was not in the case. Marriott personally wrote that counterclaim and he knows what he meant.]

SCO cleverly is saying that the language of the 9th counterclaim is broad enough to include their new claim, and if you read it, without any context, it would seem so: "164. SCO has sued IBM claiming that IBM has infringed, induced the infringement of, and contributed to the infringement of, SCO's purported UNIX copyrights by, among other things, continuing to 'reproduce, prepare derivative works of, and distribute' copyrighted UNIX materials through its activities relating to AIX and Dynix." IBM, however, argues that there was a context to those words, and nothing at the time required any distinguishing language, and it's not all right for SCO to pretend there was no limiting context. So that is the gist of their argument.

Then SCO found an email in discovery, and now they want to fit the new AIX on POWER copyright infringement claim as being what the 9th Counterclaim is about. However, as IBM points out, the 9th counterclaim asks for a declaratory judgment of noninfringement, and you can't ask for a declaratory judgment unless you are threatened with a copyright infringement lawsuit. At the time that they filed their 9th counterclaim, there was no such threat regarding AIX on POWER, so it *can't* have been what the counterclaim was addressing.

So, that's what this is all about: SCO wants to add its new claim, and because it is too late without special permission from the court, it is trying to slide under the turnstile. With this court, it just might work, since they have shown very little ability to reign SCO in, but it shouldn't, and as IBM says, they are the master of their claim, so it kind of doesn't matter what the court rules. It'd be nice if the court grants the motion, but IBM has a contingency plan, which they hint at here. It's all just a twisted SCO legal dance, the kind only an attorney could love. A certain kind of attorney.

One thing you can say for them, though. They are really good at dreaming up abstruse and far-fetched legal ways of being persistently annoying. If SCO weren't running out of money, I'd worry this could go on until my unborn great-grandchildren are writing Groklaw, but as it is, I think we're coming into the home stretch. I have never believed that a law firm would work under a legal fee cap as well as they would with visions of sugar plums dancing in their heads. I have known too many lawyers to suspend my disbelief. But, you say, they will get oodles of dough if they win. Puh-lease. I don't personally believe SCO's legal team thinks they can win this case. But they sure can drag it out.

**********************************

SNELL & WILMER L.L.P.
Alan L. Sullivan (3152)
Todd M. Shaughnessy (6651)
Amy F. Sorenson (8947)
[address, phone, fax]

CRAVATH, SWAINE & MOORE LLP
Evan R. Chesler (admitted pro hac vice)
David R. Marriott (7572)
[address, phone, fax]

Attorneys for Defendant/Counterclaim-Plaintiff
International Business Machines Corporation

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF UTAH

THE SCO GROUP, INC.,

Plaintiff/Counterclaim-Defendant,


v.

INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS MACHINES
CORPORATION,

Defendant/Counterclaim-Plaintiff.
REPLY MEMORANDUM IN FURTHER
SUPPORT OF MOTION FOR ORDER
LIMITING SCOPE OF NINTH
COUNTERCLAIM

Civil No. 2:03CV-0294 DAK

Honorable Dale A. Kimball

Magistrate Judge Brooke C. Wells

1

IBM respectfully submits this reply memorandum in further support of its motion for entry of an order limiting the scope of its Ninth Counterclaim.

Preliminary Statement

IBM's motion asks only that its Ninth Counterclaim be litigated as intended: narrowly. Although SCO opposes the motion, it does not offer any reason why IBM should be required to litigate a claim it did not intend and has no reasons to pursue. IBM's motion should therefore be granted.

The parties' dispute with respect to the scope of IBM's Ninth Counterclaim arose out of SCO's efforts to amend its complaint (for a third time) to add an entirely new claim for copyright infringement. The proposed claim is untimely, because, among other things, it comes after the deadline for amending the pleadings.1 In an effort to avoid the time bar (and the forum selection bar), SCO seeks to depict the Ninth Counterclaim as encompassing the conduct challenged by SCO's proposed new copyright claim. Based on that depiction, SCO contends that its proposed new claim is really already in the case and should therefore not be barred. 2

2

As stated in IBM's opening brief, however, IBM did not intend its Ninth Counterclaim to encompass the conduct challenged by SCO's proposed claim. We do not believe the counterclaim can be read, in context, to subsume SCO's proposed new claim. And it would make no sense to require IBM to prosecute a claim it did not intend to bring, does not believe it brought and has no reason to pursue.

Rather than explain why IBM should be required to prosecute an unintended counterclaim, SCO's opposition papers resort to irrelevant rhetorical bluster. 3 SCO states, for example, that this motion is "improper[ly] motivat[ed]" to "enlist this Court's assistance" in "damage control" and "avoid[ing]" the consequences of "improper conduct". Stripped of its bluster, SCO's opposition brief consists of only three arguments against IBM's motion. By those arguments, SCO purports to appeal to the plain language of the Ninth Counterclaim, the allegedly "parallel" form and function of IBM's Tenth Counterclaim and the supposed infirmity of IBM's "mirror-image argument". As is discussed below, all three of SCO's arguments lack merit. They not only ignore IBM's intent in asserting the Ninth Counterclaim and the context in which it was asserted, but also -- paradoxically -- they seek to expand IBM's case against SCO at a time when the litigation should be getting smaller (not bigger).

3

Argument

I. THE NINTH COUNTERCLAIM DOES NOT SWEEP BROADLY, AS SCO CONTENDS.

SCO first argues that IBM's pleading is framed in broad terms and is not expressly limited to the "post-termination" distribution of AIX and Dynix. (Opp'n at 4.) While the language of the Ninth Counterclaim speaks generally of IBM's non-Linux activities and is not expressly limited to IBM's "post-termination" distribution of AIX and Dynix, it seeks a declaration of non-infringement. A case or controversy exists with respect to such a declaratory claim only where the counterclaim-plaintiff has a reasonable apprehension of suit for copyright infringement. Cardtoons L.C. v. Major League Baseball, 95 F. 3d 959, 965-966 (10th Cir. 1996) ("In an intellectual property case, an actual controversy exists when (1) the declaratory plaintiff has produced or is prepared to produce the product in question and (2) the declaratory defendant's conduct has created a reasonable apprehension on the part of the declaratory plaintiff that it will face suit if it commences or continues the activity at issue.")

As of the filing of the Ninth Counterclaim, SCO had sued IBM for copyright infringement with respect to its continued distribution of AIX and Dynix, but it had not sued IBM for copyright infringement with respect to other non-Linux activities, as evidenced (in part) by SCO's pending application to amend. SCO had not even threatened to sue IBM for copyright infringement with respect to non-Linux activities other than IBM's "post-termination" distribution of AIX and Dynix. At the time, SCO's claim was that IBM's alleged misuse of SCO's licensed code entitled SCO to terminate IBM's rights to continue to market AIX and Dynix. IBM's continued marketing of those products, according to SCO, constituted the basis for its copyright infringement claim. Thus, IBM did not have a reasonable apprehension of being sued by SCO, there was not a case or controversy, and IBM could not have properly sued

4

SCO for a declaration of non-infringement with respect to IBM's non-Linux activities, other than the "post-termination" distribution of AIX and Dynix. Contrary to SCO's suggestion, the Ninth Counterclaim cannot be construed without regard to this context, which necessarily limits the reach of the counterclaim.4

II. THE TENTH COUNTERCLAIM IS NOT DETERMINATIVE OF THE BREADTH OF THE NINTH COUNTERCLAIM

SCO also contends that IBM's position with respect to the Ninth Counterclaim is undermined by its Tenth Counterclaim, which is not expressly limited to IBM's post-termination activities. (Opp'n 6-7) According to SCO, because the Ninth Counterclaim is "parallel" in "language and function" to the Tenth Counterclaim, the Ninth Counterclaim must be construed as coterminous with the Tenth Counterclaim and cannot be limited to IBM's post-termination activities. (Id.) Here again, SCO misses the point.

5

While the two counterclaims are framed in similar terms, that is neither surprising nor determinative of their breadth. It is not surprising because both claims seek a declaration of non-infringement of the same alleged SCO copyrights. It is not determinative of the breadth of the counterclaims because, as discussed above, determining the scope of a claim seeking a declaration of non-infringement requires reference to the reasonable apprehensions of the counterclaim-plaintiff. As of the filing of the Tenth Counterclaim, SCO had at least threatened to sue IBM for copyright infringement with respect to its Linux activities generally, thus giving rise to a reasonable apprehension of suit with respect to those activities. As of the filing of the Ninth Counterclaim, however, SCO had threatened to sue IBM (and had in fact sued IBM) for copyright infringement with respect to its non-Linux activities only insofar as they concern the "post-termination" distribution of AIX and Dynix. Thus, IBM had a reasonable apprehension of suit with respect to its non-Linux activities only insofar as they concern the "post-termination" distribution of AIX and Dynix. Accordingly, it makes perfect sense that the Ninth and Tenth Counterclaim should differ in scope. 5

III. SCO's MIRROR-IMAGE ASSERTIONS MISS THE MARK.

SCO offers three arguments to support the proposition that IBM could not have intended to assert the Ninth Counterclaim as the mirror image of the portion of SCO's copyright claim relating to IBM's non-Linux activities. All three lack merit.

6

First, SCO argues that "IBM's Ninth Counterclaim is not limited or in any way tied to SCO's copyright claim; it neither references SCO's copyright claim nor qualifies its requested declaratory relief with any mention of SCO's claims". (Opp'n at 7.) As is discussed above, the scope of the counterclaim must be determined based not only on the language of the claim but also on the context in which the language is asserted.

Second, SCO argues that if the Ninth Counterclaim were the mirror image of a claim asserted by SCO it "would be subject to dismissal as redundant and unnecessary" and "IBM would not have crafted and filed such a claim". (Opp'n at 8.) SCO made essentially the same argument in seeking to dismiss IBM's Tenth Counterclaim, and the Court rejected it in denying SCO's motion. Even if the Ninth Counterclaim were subject to dismissal, however, the remedy would be to dismiss it, not require IBM to broaden it.

Third, SCO argues that "IBM's 'mirror image' argument is implausible" because IBM described SCO's copyright claim as "broad in scope" in opposing SCO's motion to dismiss IBM's Tenth Counterclaim.(Opp'n at 8.) It is true that IBM described SCO's copyright claim as broad in scope -- but that related to SCO's attack on IBM's Linux activities (the subject of IBM's Tenth Counterclaim), not IBM's non-Linux activities. It is undisputed that with respect to IBM's non-Linux activities, SCO's copyright claim is narrow in scope and relates only to IBM's post-termination distribution of AIX and Dynix.

Conclusion

For the foregoing reasons, IBM respectfully requests that its motion with respect to the Ninth Counterclaim be granted. IBM should not be required to litigate a claim it did not intend and has no reason to pursue.

7

DATED this 1st day of April, 2005.

SNELL & WILMER L.L.P.

---[signature]____
Alan L. Sullivan
Todd M. Shaughnessy
Amy F. Sorenson

CRAVATH, SWAINE & MOORE LLP
Evan R. Chesler
David R. Marriott

Attorneys for Defendant/Counterclaim-Plaintiff
International Business Machines Corporation

Of Counsel:

INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS MACHINES CORPORATION
Donald J. Rosenberg
Alec S. Berman
[address, phone]

8


1 Untimeliness is not the only reason SCO should not be allowed again to amend its complaint. As is explained in IBM's memoranda in opposition to SCO's motion to amend, SCO's proposed claim is subject to a forum-selection clause that requires its assertion, if at all, in a New York Court.

2 In footnote 3 of its opposition papers, SCO effectively concedes that the only reason it opposes this motion is as a means of gaining leave to file its proposed new claim for copyright infringement. SCO states that it would not oppose a motion by IBM to "amend" the Ninth Counterclaim so long as SCO is free to amend its complaint. In fact, that is exactly why SCO fomented this dispute. But this motion is not about "amending" the pleadings. As a master of its counterclaim, IBM is free to prosecute its claim as it wishes, including by not prosecuting the claim at all. The purpose of this motion is to underscore IBM's intent as to the Ninth Counterclaim and to put an end to SCO's tactical efforts to misconstrue it.

3Despite SCO's unsupported (and unsupportable) assertions to the contrary: (1) IBM denies, and has repeatedly denied, SCO's allegations of infringement; (2) IBM did not "disguise" its allegedly infringing conduct with regard to AIX; (3) IBM has, from the beginning of the case, taken the same position with respect to the Ninth Counterclaim and SCO's pending copyright claim; (4) IBM did not accede to SCO's construction of the Ninth Counterclaim by producing for deposition witnesses whom SCO requested and then elected to ask about its proposed copyright claim; rather, IBM complied with its discovery obligations; and (5) there is nothing improper about IBM's motion, which seeks merely to clarify the issues in dispute.

4 To support the baseless assertion that IBM's description of the Ninth Counterclaim "has continually evolved", SCO points out that IBM has stated that the counterclaim is only as "broad as the first five counts of SCO's own complaint". SCO further states "the first four of SCO's counts . . . explicitly concern IBM's pretermination contract breaches". (Opp'n at 5.) Thus, SCO concludes, IBM has stated that "the scope of its Ninth Counterclaim is not limited to its post-termination AIX and Dynix activities". (Id.) This argument cannot withstand scrutiny.

Insofar as it relates to IBM's non-Linux activities, SCO's copyright claim depends on its four claims for breach of contract. As noted in the text above, SCO contends that because IBM breached its contractual obligations to SCO, SCO terminated IBM's right to distribute AIX and Dynix such that IBM's distribution of AIX and DYnix after the alleged termination infringes SCO's alleged copyrights. The Ninth Counterclaim seeks a declaration that the post-termination distribution of AIX and Dynix does not infringe SCO's alleged copyrights and therefore depends on SCO's claims for breach of contract. As a result, the Ninth Counterclaim is in fact no broader than SCO's first five claims. Contrary to SCO's suggestion, IBM's prior description of the Ninth Counterclaim is no different from its current description of the counterclaim.

5 SCO seems to suggest that IBM should be required to prosecute the Ninth Counterclaim as SCO construes it because the Court allowed IBM's Tenth Counterclaim to remain in the case. The suggestion is unsound. Requiring IBM to prosecute a counterclaim beyond its intended scope is very different from allowing IBM to prosecute a separate counterclaim. That is especially so since the counterclaim the Court allowed IBM to prosecute was based not only on a cause of action that SCO had already asserted against IBM but also on SCO's public and pervasive accusations that IBM's Linux activities infringe SCO's alleged copyrights.


CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE

I hereby certify that on the 1st day of April, 2005 a true and correct copy of the foregoing was served by U.S. Mail, postage prepaid, to the following:

Brent O. Hatch
Mark F. James
HATCH JAMES & DODGE, P.C.
[address]

Stephen N. Zack
Mark J. Heise
BOIES SCHILLER & FLEXNER LLP
[address]

Robert Silver
Edward Normand
Sean Eskovitz
BOIES SCHILLER & FLEXNER LLP
[address]

____[signature]____
Amy F. Sorenson

9


  


IBM Reply Memo in Further Support of Motion for Order Limiting Scope of 9th CC - as text | 218 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
Corrections Here Please
Authored by: OK on Wednesday, April 06 2005 @ 03:24 AM EDT
Please...

---
The one I was...

[ Reply to This | # ]

OT Here
Authored by: OK on Wednesday, April 06 2005 @ 03:26 AM EDT
Remember to post in HTML format with the links coded as:
<a href="http://www.example.com/"> Link text </a>

---
The one I was...

[ Reply to This | # ]

Follow the money
Authored by: RealProgrammer on Wednesday, April 06 2005 @ 03:46 AM EDT
I've always had the feeling that SCOvIBM was a smokescreen, a huge batch of
FUDge that went bad in the oven.

Now I think it's always been about greed. Smalltime, backwater greed. It's Darl
McBride suing that copier company (Ikon?) after he got fired. It's Darl and
Kevin sitting at Mom's table at Thanksgiving: Darl says IBM ripped off Caldera,
Kevin says he should sue. It's Yarro with dollar signs in his eyes.

Now it's devolved into a gaggle of lawyers soaking up what's left of the
investors' hard-earned but foolishly departed cash.



---
(I'm not a lawyer, but I know right from wrong)

[ Reply to This | # ]

I can't figure out why the Novell case "about copyright ownership" isn't first?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 06 2005 @ 06:11 AM EDT
--> If, SCO (Santa Cruz Operation), now Tarantella, never got any
copyrights... (and I can't figure out why it is not Tarantella in court with
Novell, instead of Caldera/SCOxe)...

--> Then, there were no copyrights in the deal where Caldera/SCOXE acquired
those UNIX assets, including customer lists and international sales operations,
period.

--> So- then, there should be NO issue involving any copyrights in the IBM
case (because Novell never transfered any copyright, or any IP title, to Santa
Cruz Operation, period)? NO? Where is this logic wrong? Why is the case even
proceeding without NOVELL being decided first?

It seems that the cart is being put before the horse. If, I were the judge I
would hold this case in the back room and wait until the SCO vs Novell case had
finished before proceeding, even if this were *just* a contract case, I would
want to know the chain of ownership that SCOxe is claiming PRIOR to letting
SCOxe move forward.

If there were about REAL ESTATE or TITLE, then proof of ownership would need to
be established FIRST! Why is this case different? Maybe because the lawyers
can make money filing briefs and all, kinda like treading water (but, at 0ver
$190.00 per hour).

Something is really weird the way that judges look at computer stuff like a
first time mother looks at her first child, and keeps running to the HOW-TO book
all the time?

Stay the IBM vs SCOxe case NOW and proceed with the Novell copyright ownership
case, instead.

ONLY then, *if* SCOxe prevails and pulls a rabbit out of the hat with some kind
of UNIX IP title (that is free of Novell Veto power as the APA allowed for),
then, only *if* SCOxe prevails the judge could let the IBM case move forward
where SCOxe should first be only allowed to try to challenge IBM's long and
extensive (expensive) purchase deals where they bought all they need to run
anywhere with UNIX they want and that NOVELL can veto any SCOxe actions against
IBM (in the Asset Purchase Agreement, etc), and that SCOxe can only act as an
agent of Novell, only when Novell says they can.

Oh - don't forget Estoppel, where Caldera/SCOxe has a history of a list of
things, like GPL distribution of LINUX, employee writing code for GPL GNU LINUX,
and that list goes on and and on...

The Caldera/SCOxe cases should proceed as follows:
Novell,
IBM,
Red Hat...
Why isn't that logical? Why does the judge not see this?

[ Reply to This | # ]

tSCOXEg - Monkey, small dog or gnat?
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 06 2005 @ 08:06 AM EDT
"...IBM, naturally, is trying to shake them off their back..."

PJ, I'm thinking that at best tSCOXEg are biting at IBM's ankles if not just buzzing in their ear and looking to get swatted.

[ Reply to This | # ]

A random comment that's not really about anything in particular
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 06 2005 @ 08:29 AM EDT
I don't remember the last time I read a technical argument in any of the various
SCO vs. Linux arguments. I used to find the early filings quite interesting,
especially when they spawned a hoard of insightful responses from the Linux
community.

All of this 'trying to position' themselves is just plain silly, especially
SCO's half-assertions that IBM might have done something wrong.

Let's hope SCO runs out of cash soon, has to sell off UNIX and then lays down to
die peacefully. It's the most dignified end they could hope for. (I guess I also
ought to hope that someone sensible ends up with SVR5 and whatever else SCO
owns).

And let's hope it happens soon, I've wasted far too many working hours reading
legal filings (thanks to TuxRocks and Groklaw), and even with the boring stuff I
still feel compelled to read on.

Adrian

[ Reply to This | # ]

IBM Reply Memo in Further Support of Motion for Order Limiting Scope of 9th CC - as text
Authored by: deList on Wednesday, April 06 2005 @ 09:13 AM EDT
I very rarely post, but read this site pretty much daily. After everything
that's happened in this case, I feel that the court may be purposely letting SCO
pull as many strings as they can legally pull. I feel good that this is
happening, so that any appeal is unlikely to succeed. So, the comment on the
court's inability to reign SCO in, in my view may be purposeful, and not an
"inability" at all.



---
--------------------
At the first chance you get... Don't resist, deList!

[ Reply to This | # ]

Nothing much to get worked up about here
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 06 2005 @ 10:42 AM EDT
I have already made my substantive comments on this filing here (sorry the linked post then links to further posts, as I don't want to repeat myself)

But I'd like to comment from a different angle: What happens if this motion is granted or denied.

Personally, I would think it would probably be granted, after all IBM's argument appears solid and they are masters of their own claim.


IF THIS MOTION IS GRANTED?

SCO will try to use the "amendment" by IBM (it isn't an amendment) to argue their own 3rd amended complaint should be allowed.

However, SCO has two obstacles to getting their 3rd amended complaint in this case:

(1) Untimeliness

(2) The venue clause in the Monterey contract (which requries a New York venue)

They can use IBM's "amendment" to argue on (1) [although it seems weak because IBM's "amendment" is not an amendment].

They basically have very little or nothing to argue in their favor on (2).

So... I would think SCO would have an uphill struggle to get their 3rd amended complaint with the Monterey cause of action, in this case.

And, if SCO succeeds in this uphill struggle, what is the likely main result? Answer: More delay to this case

What is perhaps noteable is that if SCO were to bring a Monterey action separately in New York, their would no delay to this case, and no delay to the separate Monterey case. In other words, SCO would get their day in court sooner. So one has to ask oneself why they don't do that (as IBM repeatedly invites them to do in this and other memos).


IF THIS MOTION IS DENIED?

But if it was denied - what happens?

First, as regard IBM's 9th counterclaim, IBM can prosecute it as broadly or narrowly as they wish (and without amending their pleadings). So - there is absolutely ZERO practical effect on IBM's case. (which BTW is I think another reason to grant it).

Second, SCO would try to use the allegedly broad nature of IBM's 9th counterclaim to argue that SCO's 3rd amended complaint should be allowed. If we go back to the same two obstacles discussed before:

(1) Untimeliness

(2) The venue clause in the Monterey contract (which requries a New York venue)

SCO has a weak argument on number (2) - by claiming Monterey is already part of this case (by misreading IBM's 9th counterclaim).

....But SCO has moved backwards on number (1) - because IBM's much narrower "amendment" that makes the case smaller not bigger is denied - but SCO is arguing their broader amendment that makes the case bigger not smaller should be granted.

Which leads us back to the same set of conclusions:

So... I would think SCO would have an uphill struggle to get their 3rd amended complaint with the Monterey cause of action, in this case.

And, if SCO succeeds in this uphill struggle, what is the likely main result? Answer: More delay to this case

What is perhaps noteable is that if SCO were to bring a Monterey action separately in New York, their would no delay to this case, and no delay to the separate Monterey case. In other words, SCO would get their day in court sooner. So one has to ask oneself why they don't do that (as IBM repeatedly invites them to do in this and other memos).


Quatermass
IANAL IMHO etc

Important P.S.

I think SCO expects this motion to be granted.

I think SCO are opposing it, *not* because SCO genuinely want/expect it denied (as noted if denied, it would have zero practical effect on IBM's prosecution of IBM's case)

rather I think SCO are opposing it, in order simply to use some of the arguments from above, especially, "IF THIS MOTION IS GRANTED?" section, to try to bolster their (weak) arguments for late amendments to the pleadings.

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Road trip?
Authored by: ctrawick on Wednesday, April 06 2005 @ 11:05 AM EDT
Is there anything preventing IBM from filing for a DJ in a NY court about AIX on
POWER?

I figure that would render SCO's leave to file motion moot, and make JK's
decision on limiting CC9 pretty easy...

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A lawyer's "war room"?
Authored by: kevinsnotalawyer on Wednesday, April 06 2005 @ 11:47 AM EDT
Maybe I've been influenced by TV/movies, but I imagine there's a huge
whiteboard somewhere in IBM's law offices that is full of mazes of GANTT
charts, if/then statements, and (why not?) even Chess boards so the lawyers
can map out all the scenarios and plan accordingly.

For SCO's lawyers? Um, I imagine a dartboard.

:)

---
Kevin

"When I say something, I put my name next to it." -- Anonymous

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A small nitpick with PJ's article
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 06 2005 @ 11:58 AM EDT
Here's the bit that I nitpick (with my emphasis added)
SCO cleverly is saying that the language of the 9th counterclaim is broad enough to include their new claim, and if you read it, without any context, it would seem so: ". SCO has sued IBM claiming that IBM has infringed, induced the infringement of, and contributed to the infringement of, SCO's purported UNIX copyrights by, among other things, continuing to 'reproduce, prepare derivative works of, and distribute' copyrighted UNIX materials through its activities relating to AIX and Dynix.".... [and then stuff about the context which I agree with PJ and IBM]

SCO's argument is premised on their reading of IBM's counterclaim, and PJ seems to indicate that "without any context", their argument is plausible.

Even ignoring the context (which favors IBM as PJ notes), the plain language does NOT favor SCO.

Notice that phrase: has sued

That's the past tense.

And IBM used that past tense in their counterclaim filing, beginning from August 2003.

Even as of 6 April 2005 (more than 18 months later), SCO has not sued IBM with respect to the Monterey issues (because their amended pleading is not accepted into the case).

In other words, SCO loses this argument both by context (as PJ and IBM note), and by the plain language of IBM's pleading (which SCO is misreading or glossing over)

Quatermass
IANAL IMHO etc

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"distancing themselves from Linux"?
Authored by: DMF on Wednesday, April 06 2005 @ 01:08 PM EDT
Some people here seem to be relaxing, thinking that SCOG's de-emphasis of Linux
in its recent pleadings indicates that Linux is safe. Presumably because SCOG
has been unable to find direct copying from Unix to Linux. Don't get
complacent.

Besides Yarro's dreams of a big payday, the main goal of SCOG is to jump aboard
or at least slow down the Linux freight train.

I believe that the downplaying of Linux is tactical only. IBM's arguement is a
good one - why need all this discovery if you already have access to both? So
they need to talk about AIX etc. in order to a) gain time, b) find some way to
taint all of IBM's contributions. Once they get a lever, they'll be all over
Linux like worms on a rose.

And if they succeed in asserting and supporting a Monterrey-based claim, then
the ABIs and APIs are at risk. We're not out of the woods yet.

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Just a wild thought
Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 06 2005 @ 04:32 PM EDT

I'm not sure if I'll be explaining this well enough, but see if anyone can follow along with me here....

  • SCO crys and crys for discovery
  • Judge Wells says "Ok, I'll give you "about 232 products"
  • IBM Opposes but looses
  • SCO, during general "good faith" discovery period (the period where Judge Wells ordered the "232 products" nothing more) find 2 e-mails (inadvertantly released attorney-client material) that apply towards Monterry.
  • SCO tries to modify claim based on this contract theory and uses the two emails during "compel discovery" hearings with Judge Wells (the hearing also taking place after SCO tries to modify their complaint for a 3rd time)
  • Judge Wells orders IBM to produce hugh amounts of discovery because SCO might have something from a contract angle... but she misses the fact that the contract angle for this discovery hasn't been properly admitted to the case yet (the request to amend complaint a 3rd time was only submitted a few days or no more than two weeks prior to the hearing)
  • IBM says no, Monterry contract issues properly belong in front of a NY judge
  • SCO says IBM CC9 directly allows it
  • IBM says nope, that's not what we meant

Now following that line of thought and assuming that Judge Wells only ordered the CMVCS discovery based on "contract disputes" that have not been admitted to the case yet (SCO snowballing Judge Wells with the 2 emails and contract issues).

What's to stop IBM from now removing (if they fail to win this limiting 9th CC motion) CC9? Thereby, forcing SCO to remove from the table any Monterry Contract theories.

Which in turn should cause the court to realize that IBM no longer needs to produce all the ordered CMVCS discovery because the contract issue that (the awarding of the discovery was based on) is no longer a part of the case.

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  • Just a wild thought - Authored by: John Hasler on Wednesday, April 06 2005 @ 05:28 PM EDT
    • thanks - Authored by: Anonymous on Wednesday, April 06 2005 @ 05:38 PM EDT
      • thanks - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 07 2005 @ 05:57 PM EDT
Another Angle
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, April 07 2005 @ 07:41 AM EDT
Let's step back a moment, get some distance from the fine detail of this claim
and take a look at what's going on here. For all the minutae of the legal
arguments, the location of the commas and the full stops, there is a big
picture.

We've discussed here before the idea that SCOxe and their legal team have
developed a new strategy, which is basically to not commit to open battle with
IBM unless or until they have an advantage.

I've watched a marked improvement in the performance of SCOxe's legal team and
would suggest that IBM's own need to slow down, take a lot more care, and
triple-check everything.

Readers of Sun Tzu's, "The Art of War", or even James Clavell's
"Shogun" will understand that, when you have an inferior force, the
worst thing you can do is commit to a battle. Thus it is with SCO. They fired
some legal shots at IBM. From the lack of evidence we have seen to date, these
claims appear to be baseless, or close to baseless.

IBM put up a robust, powerful defense, as we would have hoped they would.

Now, however, we are watching SCO's tactics, for all the wrong reasons, start to
succeed in other areas. We've seen SCOxe strategy switch from claim after claim,
week after week, to one in which they are now squirming and wriggling in an
attempt to survive. This is part of a strategy to become as uncomfortable as
possible to IBM and thus to push IBM into a settlement agreement. Basically,
this is probably the only way that Darl & Co are going to avoid legal action
against themselves.

But what's interesting and disturbing to me is that the sheer desperation on
SCOxe's part, coupled perhaps with a slight lack of focus from IBM, is creating
circumstances in which SCOs strategy is being unexpectedly successful.

IANAL, but even so my advice to IBM would be to tell their legal team to tighten
up their act as much as possible. Now is not the time for flower words. Now is
the time to be succinct, precise - and lethal. We've seen them do this in their
earlier motions and filings.

They must return to that clinical efficiency.

Don't misunderstand me: I'm not trying to be some portent of doom and I
certainly don't see this as being a problem for IBM. I do, however, think that
they would be unwise to give an increasingly desperate SCOxe wriggle room of any
kind.

sproggit ... not logged in!

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Kamikaze Tactics Next?
Authored by: Zarkov on Thursday, April 07 2005 @ 10:53 PM EDT
"...I don't personally believe SCO's legal team thinks they can win this case. But they sure can drag it out.... That line could almost have been a paraphrase of Admiral Yamamoto's thoughts after Pearl Harbour... I think even then that the Japanese military felt they could not win, but they could make America pay dearly for victory... I think I'm sort of looking forward to seeing Darl hurling himself physically at the IBM headquarters to see if he can knock it down.... :-)

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