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SCO and IBM's Dueling April Letters to Judge Kimball About CDs - as text
Friday, August 05 2005 @ 09:07 AM EDT

Here are three letters to Judge Kimball, two from SCO, one on the eve of the April 21, 2005 hearing [PDF] suggesting it be closed to the public and one right afterward "clarifying" a dispute about CDs [PDF] turned over in discovery, and a response from IBM [PDF] regarding the matter. The IBM letter also has exhibits attached. The SCO letter is the worried type lawyers send to judges after a hearing when they know something really didn't go their way. Their instinct was correct; despite this uh-oh letter, trying to explain why they had told the court that certain emails were "newly discovered evidence" they hadn't received until after the deadline to amend their complaint, when in fact they had received them, Judge Kimball denied SCO's motion to amend.

Not to put too fine a point on it, I gather SCO basically got caught telling the court something that wasn't so. They had represented that they didn't receive the discovery materials until after the deadline to amend had come and gone. IBM corrected that at the April 21, 2005 hearing by pointing out that three of the emails had been in SCO's hands since November of 2003, long before the deadline. SCO's letter is written right after the hearing to try to explain its misstatement away by grudgingly admitting it did have them but saying that they never looked at the CDs handed over in November because the CDs didn't have page and documents breaks, so it was not practical to review them until IBM later produced a CD in the format SCO wanted. In short, they did have them prior to the deadline and just didn't look, or claim they didn't.

However, if you note the excerpt from the hearing that IBM attaches to its letter, you'll notice that SCO argued at the February 2004 hearing that they had the CDs but needed page breaks going forward and they mention that it was possible in some cases to match up and figure out the beginning and end of documents, which indicates to me that they did indeed look at the CD materials prior to that hearing, at the very latest. IBM doesn't bother to point it out, but if I noticed it, likely so did Judge Kimball. Here's what SCO said at that hearing:

We have asked them, you have to identify where the documents begin and end. Put a source log with the C.D. Otherwise it is impossible to know how these documents were kept in the ordinary course of business as is required under Rule 34(b).

Certainly on some documents you can figure it out and match it up and see where it begins and ends, but we can't be left to the guessing game. It is a technical issue but it is something that can presumably be corrected, and it certainly needs to be done on a going forward basis.

Keep in mind that IBM was not required to provide the materials in digital format at all. They could have just dumped a pile of paper documents on SCO instead.

I have meticulously inserted double-lined document breaks (and numbered page breaks within the PDFs) because otherwise you would never in a million years be able to figure out where one letter ends and the next one begins.

**********************

[BOIES, SCHILLER & FLEXNER LLP Letterhead]

April 19, 2005

Received Clerk

July 5, 2005

U.S. District Court

Via Hand Delivery
Honorable Dale A. Kimball
United States District Court for the District of Utah
[address]

Re: SCO v. IBM, Case No. 2:03CV-0294 DAK

Dear Judge Kimball:

This firm is counsel for plaintiff The SCO Group, Inc. ("SCO") in the above-captioned matter. On Thursday, April 21, the parties are scheduled to appear before Your Honor for oral argument on two SCO motions and on the new Scheduling Order for this case.

All of the briefing on the two motions was filed under seal bacause many of the key documents referenced therein had been produced by IBM in discovery as "confidential". SCO expects that contents from such documents will be an important part of the argument before the Court on Thursday.

We do not believe there is any "confidential" information in the documents that we have referenced in our papers or that we intend to reference during oral argument. The documents at issue are many years old, and, at least with respect to the portions that SCO has referenced, do not reveal any information that could conceivably be sensitive to IBM.

Over the past several months, we have repeatedly asked IBM whether IBM would consent to unsealing (among other briefs) the briefing on these two pending motions. While IBM has never identified any portions of the briefs that it views as legitimately "confidential," it has declined such consent.

1

Accordingly, we seek Your Honor's guidance as to the appropriate way for SCO to present this information to the Court during the argument on Thursday. While SCO does not believe the information at issue warrants it, the Court (and IBM) may prefer that the Courtroom be sealed for purposes of the argument on SCO's two motions.

Thank you for your consideration.

Respectfully Yours,

[__signature__]
Edward Normand

cc: David R. Marriott, Esq.
Todd M. Shaugnessy, Esq.
Brent O. Hatch, Esq.



[BOIES, SCHILLER & FLEXNER LLP Letterhead]

April 25, 2005

Received Clerk

July 5, 2005

U.S. District Court

Via Hand Delivery

Honorable Dale A. Kimball
United States District Court
District of Utah
[address]

Re: SCO v. IBM, Case No. 2:03CV-0294 DAK

Dear Judge Kimball:

I write on behalf of The SCO Group, Inc. ("SCO") to clarify the record concerning an issue that IBM raised during the oral argument last Thursday, April 21, on SCO's Motion for Leave to File a Third Amended Complaint based on numerous newly discovered internal IBM documents.

During the argument, counsel for IBM (Mr. Marriott) contended for the first time that IBM had produced three of the internal documents on which SCO relied before the prior deadline for the amendment of pleadings, in "November 2003." SCO had argued in support of its motion, when the motion was filed last October, that the documents had not been produced until after the deadline, and IBM had not disputed this fact in either the opposition or the surreply brief that it filed against SCO's motion.

When this issue was first raised at the hearing, I stated that I believed there was a factual dispute concerning IBM's new argument. I have now had an opportunity to review not only the documents that counsel for IBM handed up to the Court in his surrebuttal argument, but also additional relevant materials which IBM did not submit to the Court with the other materials it had compiled.

That record shows that as of November 2003, IBM had produced to SCO 18 CDs without any page breaks between documents. The format of IBM's production resulted in one CD, for example, that contained what the computers recognized as just one "document" of thousands of pages. In addition to failing to comply with its obligation to produce the documents in the manner in which IBM had maintained them in the ordinary couse of its business, IBM's manner of production significantly hindered SCO's review of the documents and made any effort to review the CDs impractical.

When SCO promptly identified this problem in November 2003, counsel for IBM acknowledged the problem and represented that it "promptly instructed our vendor to include page breaks on all CDs produced going forward." (Letter from C. Kao to D. Goodstone dated Mar. 4, 2004, at Tab 1.) But IBM did not at that time ask its vendor to correct the format of production in the 18 CDs that IBM had produced by that time. IBM failed to produce any corrected CDs before the February 4 deadline for amendments.

1

Accordingly, on February 6, 2004, SCO's counsel raised the issue during a hearing before Judge Wells, at which Mr. Marriott represented IBM. SCO's counsel explained:
"in the production that we have received to date, we will get a C.D. and it will say there are two documents on it. The two documents will be 4,000 pages long. Clearly that is not the case. When S.C.O. has been producing C.D.'s it has identified where each document begins and ends. We have asked them, you have to identify where the documents begin and end. Put a source log with the C.D. Otherwise it is impossible to know how these documents were kept in the ordinary course of business as is required under Rule 34(b)."
(Transcript of Hearing on Feb. 6, 2004, at 26, at Tab 2.) SCO's counsel further explained that "we can't be left to the guessing game." (Id. at 27.) SCO reminded IBM of the need to correct the defects in the CDs that had already been produced in letters to IBM's counsel on February 19 and 27, 2004. (Tabs 3 and 4.)

On March 4, 2004, one month after the amendment deadline had passed, counsel for IBM informed us: "With respect to the first 18 CDs of documents, our vendor informs us that it is possible to go back and add page breaks to those CDs. We will produce you [sic] revised CDs as soon as they become available from our vendor." (Tab 1.) On March 10, 2004, IBM's counsel further informed us: "We have been producing CDs containing document breaks to SCO since Mark Heise of your office first raised the issue with us in November 2003, and will continue to do so going forward. Enclosed with this letter are replacements for CDs 1-18 containing document break information." (Letter from C. Kao to D. Goodstone dated Mar. 10, 2004, at Tab 5.) This record makes clear that even as to the three documents that Mr. Marriott identified for the first time at last week's hearing, IBM had produced those documents in a format that made it impractical if not impossible for SCO to review, that IBM admitted was improper, and that IBM did not correct until over a month after SCO had raised the issue before the Magistrate Court and the deadline for amendments had passed. We did not review the three documents to which Mr. Marriott referred until after IBM had corrected the format of its production.

We hope this clarifies the issue for the Court and thank the Court for its attention to this matter.

Respectfully submitted,

[signature]

Edward Normand

cc: David R. Marriott, Esq.



Snell & Wilmer L.L.P Law Offices
[address]
Todd M. Shaughnessy
[telephone number]
[e-mail address]

April 28, 2005

Received Clerk

July 05, 2005

U.S. District Court

HAND DELIVERED

Honorable Dale A. Kimball
United States District Court
District of Utah
[address]

Re: The SCO Group v. International Business Machines Corporation
Civil No. 2:03cv0294

Your Honor:

We are counsel for IBM in the above-referenced matter. I am writing to respond briefly to the letter from Mr. Normand to the Court dated April 25, 2005.

As the Court is aware, SCO's motion to amend is predicated on the proposition that it had no reason to know that IBM included SVR4 code in AIX for Power until after IBM produced the six documents and source code referenced in and/or attached to SCO's motion. To support this proposition, SCO incorrectly advised the Court (and Mr. Normand reiterated numerous times during his argument) that IBM did not produce any of these materials until after the February 4 deadline for amending the pleadings. Rather than accept responsibility for SCO's misstatements (which Mr. Normand only begrudgingly acknowledges), Mr. Normand's letter attempts, once again, to blame IBM for SCO's errors.

No longer able to contend that IBM did not produce any of the "newly discovered" evidence before the deadline for amending the pleadings, Mr. Normand states that IBM produced the documents "in a format that made it impractical if not impossible for SCO to review" and that IBM "admitted" the format of the production was "improper." Like the assertions made during the April 21 hearing, this assertion is wrong. The documents at issue were produced on CDs in the form typically used by IBM's vendor and were accompanied by a source log specifically identifying the files from which the documents were obtained. To review the documents, all SCO had to do was print them off or scroll through them on a computer screen. SCO does not

1

Honorable Dale A. Kimball
April 28, 2005
Page 2

claim (because it cannot) that the CDs were not functional, or that the information was not there if SCO had simply taken the time to look. Should the Court desire to verify that the documents at issue were available "at the click of a mouse," we enclose with this letter copies of the CDs produced in the fall of 2003 containing the documents at issue.

After the documents were produced, SCO requested that page breaks be electronically inserted on the CDs. IBM does not ordinarily produce documents with electronic page breaks, which are not necessary to review the content of the documents or to determine how the documents are maintained in the ordinary course of business. Although IBM was not required to make an electronic production at all, let alone one with electronic page breaks, we nevertheless agreed, as a courtesy to SCO, to accommodate SCO's request, and from that point forward our vendor has inserted electronic page breaks on the CDs. These could not be inserted on the CDs already produced, so those CDs were later re-created and then reproduced to SCO -- at its request. Mr. Normand now seeks to portray this courtesy as an admission of "improper" conduct.

Even if (contrary to fact) SCO could not have looked at the documents at the time they were produced, SCO could not justify its delay in seeking to assert the proposed claim. SCO failed even to raise the issue of amending the pleadings at the June 8, 2004, hearing on its prior motion to amend the scheduling order. At that time, SCO had spent more than three months with every single document it now cites (on CDs with electronic page breaks), and with all of the source code from which IBM's alleged infringement was, in SCO's words, "relatively easy to identify." Moreover, entirely independent of the documents attached to SCO's motion, the documents in its files and in the public record make clear that SCO has known for years that IBM included SVR4 code in AIX for Power, as we demonstrated at the April 21 hearing.

If I can be of any assistance or respond to any questions, please feel free to contact me.

Very truly yours,

SNELL & WILMER
[___signature___]
Todd M. Shaughnessy

TMS:dw
Enclosures
cc: Edward Normand
Brent Hatch
David Marriott

2


[Cravath, Waine & Moore LLP Letterhead]

March 4, 2004

SCO v. IBM: IBM v. SCO

Dear Debra:

I write in response your letters dated February 19 and February 27, 2004.

Let me first correct certain inaccuracies in your letters. IBM to date has produced 23 CDs containing documents. The first 18 of those CDs were provided by our vendor without any document breaks. After Mr. Heise of your office raised this problem with us in November 2003, we promptly instructed our vendor to include page breaks on all of the CDs -- CDs 19-23 -- produced after November 2003, and we will continue to produce CDs with page breaks.

With respect to the first 18 CDs of documents, our vendor informs us that it is possible to go back and add page breaks to those CDs. We will produce you revised CDs as soon as they become available from our vendor.

I appreciate your attention to my letter to Mark Heise dated February 19, 2004, but I still have yet to receive a response. Please let me know when SCO intends to produce the documents it assured IBM on February 4, 2004 it would be producing "expeditiously".

Sincerely,

[signature]

Christopher Kao

Debra Weiss Goodstone, Esq.
Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP
[address]

Exhibit 1

3


IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

DISTRICT OF UTAH

CENTRAL DIVISION

THE S.C.O. GROUP, INC.,

a Delaware corporation,

Plaintiff,

vs.

INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS

MACHINES, a New York

corporation,

Defendant.

CASE NO. 03-CV-294DK

____________________

BEFORE THE HONORABLE BROOKE C. WELLS

February 6, 2004

Motion Hearing

1

Exhibit 2

4

There is that New York Times article that was attached to our reply memo, it identifies and there was a ten page report that he and Mr. Wladawsky-Berger and a couple of others put together in deciding whether I.B.M. should shift gears and go to Linux. We don't have that ten page report and it is a critical document. Those are the things that we have asked for. We have had specific conversations with Christine Arena at Cravath asking specifically for Mr. Palmisano stuff, for Mr. Wladawsky-Berger, Paul Horn, Nick Bowen, those peoples' information. We have not gotten it.

Throughout these they have not provided the contact information so that we would not be able to locate these people, and that is just clearly information that needs to be put in there.

The final point is more of a housekeeping matter, and that is in the production that we have received to date, we will get a C.D. and it will say there are two documents on it. The two documents will be 4,000 pages long. Clearly that is not the case. When S.C.O. has been producing C.D.'s it has identified where each document begins and ends. We have asked them, you have to identify where the documents begin and end. Put a source log with the C.D. Otherwise it is impossible to know how these documents were kept in the ordinary course of business as is required under Rule 34(b).

Certainly on some documents you can figure it out

26

5

and match it up and see where it begins and ends, but we can't be left to the guessing game. It is a technical issue but it is something that can presumably be corrected, and it certainly needs to be done on a going forward basis.

That is the gist of our motion to compel, Your Honor. I appreciate your time this morning.

THE COURT: Thank you.

Mr. Marriott.

MR MARRIOTT: Thank you, Your Honor.

The S.C.O. Group propounded 57 document requests and/or interrogatories, Your Honor. 52 document requests and there were five interrogatories. S.C.O.'s motion to compel concerns only six of those requests, three document requests and three interrogatories. The requests, Your Honor, break down into roughly four categories. There are, I would submit really, only two issues that deserve argument, that is argument as to two categories of the four. That is because if Your Honor looks at our opposition to their motion to compel, I think in part this is a motion that makes much ado about nothing, because we either have indicated that we will provide or have provided much of the information requested.

For example, Mr. Heise makes reference to desiring to know the identity of the people who have contributed in some way to A.I.X. or Dynix. Well, there is provided as as exhibit to our response, Your Honor, a list of about 8,000

27

6


[BOIES, SCHILLER & FLEXNER LLP Letterhead]

February 19, 2004

Via Facsimile and U.S. Mail

Christopher Kao
Cravath Swaine & Moore LLP
[address]

Re: The SCO Group v. IBM

Dear Mr. Kao:

As you are likely aware, the CDs produced by IBM fail to contain any document breaks. This has resulted in one CD, for example, containing just one "document" of multiple thousands of pages when in reality, it may contain 3,000 documents of less than 2 pages each.

As previously requested and as addressed at the hearing before Judge Wells on February 6, 2004, we must have corrected production from IBM so that we may accurately determine where any given document begins and ends. This failure by IBM to produce the documents in the manner they are maintained in the ordinary course of business obviously hinders our ability to review these documents and is contrary to the Federal Rules.

Please provide us with corrected CDs reflecting accurate document breaks at our earliest opportunity and please ensure that all future production CDs reflect appropriate document breaks.

I would appreciate hearing back from you with the anticipated date of delivery.

Sincerely,

[___signature___]
Debra Weiss Goodstone

cc: Mark J. Heise
Brent O. Hatch

Exhibit 3

7


[BOIES, SCHILLER & FLEXNER LLP Letterhead]

February 27, 2004

Via Facsimile and U.S. Mail

Christopher Kao
Cravath Swaine & Moore LLP
[address]

Re: The SCO Group v. IBM

Dear Christopher:

We are in receipt of your letter dated February 19, 2004 addressed to Mark Heise.

We are reviewing your issues and preparing a response.

In the meanwhile, when will we be receiving IBM's corrected CDs which were previously produced withour any document breaks. As we have stated repeatedly, we cannot proceed with our electronic document review in the absence of corrected CDs.

Please advise.

Very sincerely,

[____signature____]
Debra Weiss Goodstone

cc: Mark J. Heise
Brent O. Hatch

Exhibit 4

8


[Cravath, Swaine & Moore LLP Letterhead]

March 10, 2004

SCO v. IBM; IBM v. SCO

Dear Debra:

To the extent my March 4, 2004 letter to you was imprecise, let me clarify. We have been producing CDs containing document breaks to SCO since Mark Heise of your office first raised the issue with us in November 2003, and will continue to do so going forward.

Enclosed with this letter are replacements for CDs 1-18 containing document break information. Please note that these disks contain documents stamped "Confidential" pursuant to the Protective Order in this case.

Please feel free to call me if you have any questions.

Very truly yours,

[___signature____]

Christopher Kao

Debra Weiss Goodstone, Esq.
Boies, Schiller & Flexner LLP
[address]

Encls.

BY FAX AND FEDERAL EXPRESS

Exhibit 5

9



  


SCO and IBM's Dueling April Letters to Judge Kimball About CDs - as text | 243 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
OT here please
Authored by: DeepBlue on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 09:47 AM EDT
OT here please.

---
All that matters is whether they can show ownership, they haven't and they
can't, or whether they can show substantial similarity, they haven't and they
can't.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Corrections here
Authored by: DeepBlue on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 09:48 AM EDT
Corrections here please.

---
All that matters is whether they can show ownership, they haven't and they
can't, or whether they can show substantial similarity, they haven't and they
can't.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Normal Course of Business...
Authored by: chrisbrown on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 09:51 AM EDT
IBM indicated that the original production was already in the the form they
were kept in the course of business. Therefore the original production was the
most "proper" means of producing it for SCO.

SCO's request there be document and page breaks is a request for production
*different* from the way IBM normally stores the documents.

I hope Judge Kimaball noticed that as well.

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO and IBM's Dueling April Letters to Judge Kimball About CDs - as text
Authored by: WhiteFang on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 09:52 AM EDT
There is no question that IBM's legal team is the much more preofessional team.

I read the tSCOg legal team's letters and all I can think of is:

"What cheese would you like with that w(h)ine?"

Every single viewer, editor, browser I'm familiar with has a 'search' function.
Note to tSCOg's legal team - pleading incompetence is not a virtue.

[ Reply to This | # ]

The complaint SCO wanted to make
Authored by: cricketjeff on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 09:55 AM EDT
Via Hand Delivery

Honorable Dale A. Kimball
United States District Court
District of Utah
[address]

Re: SCO v. IBM, Case No. 2:03CV-0294 DAK

Dear Judge Kimball:

I write on behalf of The SCO Group, Inc. ("SCO") to complain about
the form of IBM's purported compliance wth SCO's legitimate discovery requests.
Although IBM have supplied us with large quantities of material in electronic
form they have not, as we had legitimately expected. Extracted and highlighted
lots of breaches of our copyrights and contracts. Rather all the material they
produce is intended to show they didn't breach any of our rights and this is not
what we want.
Further to this material being produced on the Internet and in other court cases
tends to show we have no rights over any Unix code and we would respectfully
request your honour to grant us an immediate injunction against people
revealling inconvenient facts. There is lots of material available from some of
our friends that would be much more favourable to us and they could publish this
instead if you ordered them too.

We hope this clarifies the issue for the Court and thank the Court for its
attention to this matter.

Respectfully submitted,

[signature]

Edward Normand

[ Reply to This | # ]

Congratulations and Kudos to the Team!
Authored by: joef on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 09:57 AM EDT
For regularly beating your own speed record in getting these documents promptly
posted as text versions.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Isn't SCO a computer company?
Authored by: KBellve on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 10:00 AM EDT

I don't understand why a computer company can't use a few simple UNIX tools to
extract the documents from a single file?

They spent more time to communicate back and forth with IBM then it would take a
novice UNIX user to extract the documents in a format they wanted.

[ Reply to This | # ]

The jury verdict...should it ever get that far
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 10:10 AM EDT
I predict:

Judge K: "Has the Jury reached a verdict?"
Foreman: nods "We have, your Honor."
Judge K: "And?"
Foreman: "We the jury, find the SCO Group to be a liar, liar, pants on
fire."

bkd

[ Reply to This | # ]

heh heh heh
Authored by: inode_buddha on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 10:42 AM EDT
You meticulously inserted the page breaks.

:-)

---
-inode_buddha
Copyright info in bio

"When we speak of free software,
we are referring to freedom, not price"
-- Richard M. Stallman

[ Reply to This | # ]

Are these the same people?
Authored by: the_flatlander on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 10:50 AM EDT
Are these the self-same SCOundrels who were sure they understood the technical aspects of IBM's Source Code Repository better than IBM? But they can't cope with documents that aren't marked "Begin HERE" and "End HERE"?

Hmmmmm. Funny about that.

Meanwhile, I love the SCOundrels' brilliant attempt to exclude the public from the hearing. I can only imagine what an "enormous SCOX victory" it would have been, had we not had witnesses.

The Flatlander

Frankly, at this point it seems perfectly clear that the SCOundrels have done nothing with any of the discovery they've gotten. Why should they? They know only too well there's not going to be any actual evidence of wrong doing in there.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Esq(uire) ?
Authored by: klog on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 11:41 AM EDT
Why was Debra Goodstone addressed as "Esq." in one of the letters from
IBM's lawyers (March 4th)?

Are Lady Lawyers in the US promoted to maledom in etiquette terms?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Uh, come again?
Authored by: raynfala on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 12:14 PM EDT
"Certainly on some documents you can figure it out and match it up and see where it begins and ends, but we can't be left to the guessing game."

Now that's an interesting statement, coming from a legal team that has left IBM, the world & their dogs to the guessing game of exactly what UNIX code was allegedly contributed to Linux.

--Raynfala

[ Reply to This | # ]

Give me a break
Authored by: Shakyrie on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 12:41 PM EDT
In the worst case they could have read the printed information like has been
done for by legal teams for hundreds of years prior to now. There can be no
excuse for not having done so.

They could have at least made some actual effort, demonstrated some initiative,
in converting the format to something more useful for their team to deal with.
Take your pick on the myriad of ways they could have accomplished what they
sought to do with the documents on their own instead of trying to get someone
else to do their job for them. Failing internal IT staff that are actually worth
their weight in salt one can always pick up the phone and call some of the many
thousands of external experts. Incompetence on their part does not does not
constitute failure on the part of Big Blue or the court.

I wish I could do my job so poorly and get paid millions for it anyway….

[ Reply to This | # ]

Do we know the format of the massive documents?
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 12:55 PM EDT
In the absence of any facts, I'm randomly guessing they're UNIX mailboxes.
(3,000 documents mostly under 2 pages long stored in 1 file. What else can that
be?). In which case they contain very clear pagination and identification for
all the documents. If SCO had access to an ordinary mail program, it could have
chopped up the file for them.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Imagined SCO office conversation
Authored by: ewe2 on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 01:58 PM EDT
Lawyer: "Well we got the CD's from IBM and the bad news is there's nothing
we can use on them."

Darl: "But we NEED something! Are there any references to other stuff we
could grab- I mean, evidence we could subpoena for discovery?"

Lawyer: "Not a thing. Interesting though, the CD's didn't have page breaks
in the documents, but a simple grep-"

Darl: "What?! That's IT!! We can delay for at least a year on this!! Demand
NEW CD's WITH page breaks and then, ah, FORGET you asked for them until
discovery is over and then DEMAND the CD's again!! Yeah! That'll work!!!!"

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO and IBM's Dueling April Letters to Judge Kimball About CDs - as text
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 02:09 PM EDT
tar cf /tmp/documents *.txt

Now, wouldn't it have been funny if there were no document "page
breaks" because the files were simply an uncompressed tarball, making it
look like all the files were one document?

My guess, is that the files are stored in a large single image, and the
"TOC" provides a byte offset and length, or some other bit of
information to get to that text.

Keep in mind, they are probably using some form of digital archive service that
scans and OCRs letters and documents and stores them in text for ease of
searching. [I can think of lots of other ways things are stored in conjunction
with that, but this is one of the simpler ideas.]

Still, it is interesting. Not that SCO would want to make things move faster,
but I wonder if they gave the CD to a tech person/developer if that person could
have split/parsed the data into individual documents for SCO. Especially if the
single file was formatted based on 66 lines per page, and just printing it would
have resulted in new documents starting on a new page.

[ Reply to This | # ]

SCO and IBM's Dueling April Letters to Judge Kimball About CDs - as text
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 03:23 PM EDT
Surely the documents were delivered in a readable form. SCO could not read them.
Isn't that their problem not IBM's.

Tufty

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Futile Dueling after Sparks in Court
Authored by: webster on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 05:15 PM EDT
SCO had been doing well on the Discovery front of late. Their frequent and
overlength filings had paid off and IBM had been put to great trouble and
expense. They were making great headway with the derivative code theory and the
AIX on Power betrayal. There was every reason to believe they had momentum and
fairness on their side as they approached the hearing on the Third Amendment.

Early hearings had not gone well for SCO. There was the famous "Silver
Nap" hearing and the "No Copyrights" and "No Trade
Secrets" hearings and others best forgotten.

SCO had been tough with their hard-won discovery, demanding that it be just so,
not in any old way IBM wanted. They had a well-documented argument of late
disclosure of AIX documents that would persuade the court to permit a Third
Amendment.

Mr. Normand was prepared and rehearsed, ready to match IBM with exhibits and
law. What's more, their arguments had not been fully opposed in IBM's brief.
They had an irrefutable argument that the relevant discovery documents came
after the amendment deadline. This hearing was going to be different. Let IBM
scribble notes and scramble through binders for a change.

Those that could be pressed to remember admit that Normand was confident,
insistent, articulate and almost persuasive. But then "he who could not be
outdone" began his litany to the exhibit and to the day, without notes, of
the volume of documents that the SCO lawyers had before the amendment deadline,
...documents that informed the substance of their proposed amendment. It was
stunning and SCO was stunned. Both Marriott and Normand could not both be
right. No one was betting against Marriott this day or any day. Overcome by
surprise and doubt, Normand did his best, but he could only make a feeble sound.
He conceded there must be an error (his own?) and dutifully marched onward into
the valley of embarassment. Clearly someone had missed something and it wasn't
IBM.

The Nazgul filed out wearing mirthful smirks. Out of respect and pity for their
colleagues they did this to hide the giggles. They eschewed high fives for
modest handshakes and elbows.

The letters above confirm that Mr. Normand soon got to the bottom of this little
mystery which he tried to explain to the judge as he pointed out IBM's fault in
this caper. This just gave IBM an opportunity to send the disks and vividly
illustrate SCO shortcomings. If the Judge, his law clerk or his secretary could
do it, why couldn't SCO?

***

One hesitates to get started on the matter of the first letter. In this letter
prior to the hearing SCO suggests that IBM or the Court would want to have the
hearing sealed. This letter should be mounted on a pole and drafted into the
SCO Colorguard. It is a monument to their credibility and good judgment.

---
webster

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Groklaw is Bad for Robots!
Authored by: BrianW on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 07:22 PM EDT
That’s it! I've had it! No more Groklaw for ANY of my robots!

I thought I finally had a robot that could tolerate SCO's circular logic. But
with this last story, my newest robot's head exploded. AGAIN!

It first started way back when SCO released press release after press release
with contradictory information. The circular logic of SCO's reasoning kept
making my robots' heads explode. I've lost more robots this way:

SCO to IBM: “We’re terminating your AIX license for continuing to distribute
AIX after we terminated your license.”

BOOM! No more robot head.

I made some improvements, but then SCO came out with a couple of gems that,
combined, was more than my second robot could handle:

SCO to Novell: “We’re suing you to recover the cost of suing you.”

SCO to Novell: “As punishment for falsely claiming that we don’t own all UNIX
copyrights, we’re asking the court to order you to transfer all UNIX copyrights
to us.”

BOOM! Another robot bites the dust.

I thought I had perfected the circular logic filter, so I allowed my third robot
to read Groklaw. But then SCO bested me once again:

SCO to IBM: “We’ll tell you exactly what you did to cause us $5 billion in
damages just as soon as you tell us exactly what you did to cause us $5 billion
in damages.”

SCO to SEC: “Events in the future will affect what we say in the past.”

SCO to Red Hat: “Just because we did exactly what you said we would do doesn’t
mean you were right when you said we would do exactly what we did.”

BOOM! Robot number three is junk.

Thinking that the time-travel aspect of SCO's SEC revisions is what did my third
robot in, I made some more adjustments. But then SCO did me in again with their
customer lawsuits:

SCO to DC: “We’re suing you because you ignored our request to provide
information so we could sue you.”

SCO to AZ: “We’re suing you to prove that Linux is better than UNIX only
because Linux stole code from UNIX, which is way better than Linux.”

BOOM! Good thing I was wearing my safety glasses.

Finally, my last robot has been retrofitted with a stochastic filtering
mechanism that should screen out all contradictory logic that has claimed so
many of my robots in the past. But, no, it wasn't to be:

SCO to IBM: “We discovered when we read your documents that we couldn't read
your documents.”

BOOM! Back to the drawing board...

---
//Brian
#define IANAL

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SCO and IBM's Dueling April Letters to Judge Kimball About CDs - as text
Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 07:55 PM EDT
Wow! Reading the two sentences extracted by PJ, i.e.,

We have asked them, you have to identify ...
Certainly on some documents you can figure...

I now understand SCO's legal problem--their lawyers write at a third grade
level!

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  • Be fair now - Authored by: bmcmahon on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 08:26 PM EDT
    • Be fair now - Authored by: Anonymous on Friday, August 05 2005 @ 08:42 PM EDT
Eventually
Authored by: inode_buddha on Saturday, August 06 2005 @ 12:22 AM EDT
Eventually They'll run out of things to whine about. Probably a few whinges will
be recycled before somebody points out that they already whined about that. To
me, this shows that the discovery could be provided in any format imaginable and
it would still not be satisfactory. This means that they are not even looking
for, or at the discovery materials. Rather, they are looking to have it all
handed to them on a silver platter. Unfortunately for them, it just doesn't work
that way.

FWIW the silver platter is in use at table 19, and they have AmEx Gold cards.

---
-inode_buddha
Copyright info in bio

"When we speak of free software,
we are referring to freedom, not price"
-- Richard M. Stallman

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Standard UNIX Mailbox archives???
Authored by: darkonc on Saturday, August 06 2005 @ 12:59 AM EDT
I'm guessing that what IBM handed to SCO was a Mailbox (mbox) archive ... Something that you could read using something like the unix comandline 'mailx' program ... or mutt, ThunderBird, Evolution, or any of a couple dozen other Unix Mail programs which could have sorted, organized and searched them in any number of ways.

But we're talking SCO here ... These guys only own (cough cough) UNIX. They don't actually understand it.

At least I got a good laugh out of it.

---
Powerful, committed communication. Touching the jewel within each person and bringing it to life..

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SCO and IBM's Dueling April Letters to Judge Kimball About CDs - as text
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, August 06 2005 @ 05:18 AM EDT
Seriously what next? SCO will starting complaining about spelling and grammar
mistakes in IBM documents?

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SCO and IBM's Dueling April Letters to Judge Kimball About CDs - as text
Authored by: blacklight on Saturday, August 06 2005 @ 09:58 AM EDT
Given that SCOG's outside lawyers would know by now that SCOG's case against IBM
is not credible, the least I would expect out of these outside lawyers is that
they at least try to preserve their own professional credibility from being
sucked into the whirlpool of SCOG's debacle.

This episode shows that the outside lawyers are not in the least concerned about
their professional credibility with the judge, or with anyone else for that
matter. I would guess that professional credibility is a lawyer's bread and
butter - win or lose, but I am erring in thinking rationally.

The outside lawyers are going to lose the case - it's almost a given. But when
they are willing to destroy their professional credibility over trivial matters,
they are losing and the battle (SCOG's case) and the war (the professional
credibility of Boies et al to any prospective client). However, it is not our
task to save our enemies from themselves and whatever inner demons are
afflicting them.

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SCO and IBM's Dueling April Letters to Judge Kimball About CDs - as text
Authored by: Anonymous on Saturday, August 06 2005 @ 01:03 PM EDT
Hohum... and these guys are going to understand how two Operating Systems'
source code do/do not infringe each other's copyright?

Surely the page breaks depend on the size of your page? Maybe IBM was using the
old style tear-off line printer paper. That would make sense (two files == 2
packs of 2000 continuous sheets).

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