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Declaration of Brent Hatch in SCO v IBM
Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 09:17 AM EST

PACER shows a new filing by The SCO Group in the IBM litigation, a declaration by Brent Hatch [PDF] along with an exhibit [PDF] containing a portion of the February 16, 2007 deposition of Lawrence Bouffard in the Novell case.

**************************************************

Brent O. Hatch (5715)
Mark F. James (5295)
HATCH, JAMES & DODGE
[Address]
[Telephone]
[Facsimile]

Stuart H. Singer (admitted pro hac vice)
BOIES, SCHILLER & FLEXNER LLP
[Address]
[Telephone]
[Facsimile]

Robert Silver (admitted pro hac vice)
Edward Normand (admitted pro hac vice)
BOIES, SCHILLER & FLEXNER LLP
[Address]
[Telephone]
[Facsimile]

Stephen N. Zack (admitted pro hac vice)
BOIES, SCHILLER & FLEXNER LLP
[Address]
[Telephone]
[Facsimile]

Attorneys for The SCO Group, Inc.

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF UTAH

THE SCO GROUP, INC.


Plaintiff / Counterclaim-Defendant,

v.

INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS
MACHINES CORPORATION,

Defendant/Counterclaim-Plaintiff.

SUPPLEMENTAL DECLARATION
OF BRENT O. HATCH

Case No. 2:03CV0294DAK

Honorable Dale A. Kimball
Magistrate Judge Brooke C . Wells

1

I, Brent O. Hatch, declare as follows:

1. I am a citizen of the United States, am over the age of 21, and am competent to testify to the matters set forth herein.

2. I am an attorney at law duly licensed to practice before all the Courts of the State of Utah, and an attorney with the firm Hatch, James & Dodge, P.C., and counsel for The SCO Group, Inc. ("SCO") in the lawsuit against International Business Machines Corporation ("IBM"), titled The SCO Group, Inc. v. International Business Machines Corporation, Civil No. 2:03CV-0294 DAK (D. Utah 2003).

3. This Supplemental Declaration is submitted in support of Plaintiff/Counterclaim- Defendant SCO's various motions for summary judgment.

4. Submitted herewith as Exhibit 389 is a true and correct copy of excerpts from the February 16, 2007 deposition of Lawrence Bouffard in the litigation titled The SCO Group, Inc. v. Novell, Inc., Civil No. 2:04CV00139 DAK (D. Utah 2004).

I declare under the penalty of perjury that the foregoing is true and correct.

Executed this 28th day of February 2007.

Salt Lake City, Utah

/s/ Brent O. Hatch
Brent O. Hatch

2

CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE

Plaintiff/Counterclaim-Defendant, The SCO Group, Inc., certifies that a true and correct copy of the foregoing was served on Defendant/Counterclaim-Plaintiff, International Business Machines Corporation, on this 28th day of February, 2007, via CM/ECF to the following:

David Marriott, Esq. ([email address])
Cravath, Swaine & Moore
[address]

Todd Shaughnessy, Esq. ([email address])
Snell & Wilmer LLP
[address]

/s/ Brent O. Hatch

3

EXHIBIT 389

1

Deposition of LAWRENCE BOUFFARD

Date:February 16, 2007
Volume: 1

Case: SCO v. NOVELL

SHARI MOSS & ASSOCIATES
[address]
[phone]
[fax]

2

Page 57

BY MR. JACOBS:

Q. Let's break it down a little bit.

Do you see that, first of all, Exhibit 61 is a declaration that you executed on November 10th, 2003?

A. I do.

Q. And you see that you'd executed it under penalty of perjury?

A. I do.

Q. And you understood what "penalty of perjury" meant when you executed it?

A. I did.

Q. You understood this was a serious -- executing this was a serious matter?

MR NORMAND: Objection to form.

THE WITNESS: I did.

BY MR. JACOBS:

Q. And at the time you executed it, you studied it, and, to the best of your knowledge and belief at the time, it represented your understanding?

MR. NORMAND: Objection to form.

THE WITNESS: It was not written by me. You know how these things go. It was provided to me, and I was asked, "Is this an accurate representation of what you said when you met with us?"

3

Page 58

The first go-round, there were several sections that were completely objectionable and wrong. Actually, they didn't reflect what I said, and it was clear that it was trying to get me to say something that they wanted to hear.

So I didn't sign it the first go-round, I sent it back to them. And they said, "Well, which paragraphs do you have a problem with?" And I told them.

I got another draft, and it still was not what I had said. So I asked them to strike some things, I believe they did, and then we went back and forth a few times.

By the last time reading over it, I read it over at that point a little weary of it from the standpoint of, "well, I guess you could interpret what I said that way." Because that's what I was being asked to do: Did we interpret you that way.

It's not really a statement of my words. And I understand they never really are -- well, not never. It's only a couple of times I've done this. But this was particularly difficult working with them, trying to get it to be how I would characterize things. It became a negotiation of my words rather than a document of my own words.

4

Page 59

BY MR. JACOBS:

Q. Why did you sign it?

A. I signed it -- I said, "Well, I guess you could interpret what I said that way. There are some things that I would have said differently." But at that point, I just got kind of tired of the process, and I said that's, you know, close enough.

Q. Close enough that you were comfortable signing it under penalty of perjury that it was true and correct?

MR. NORMAND: Objection to form.

THE WITNESS: Correct.

BY MR. JACOBS:

Q. If you skip ahead in the document -- it looks like it's about a third of the way through -- you'll come to the Asset Purchase Agreement. It's after the last of the UNIX licensing documents that are attached to the agreement.

The next document. Let me give you a clip to make it easier.

So this is, in fact, what you understood to be the Asset Purchase Agreement when you executed the declaration?

A. Yes.

Q. And what you understood to be an Asset

5

Page 120

time is 1:56.

EXAMINATION

BY MR. NORMAND:

Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Bouffard.

A. Good afternoon.

Q. Towards the end of his questions, Mr. Jacobs referred to a second declaration that you executed. Do you recall that?

A. Yes, I do.

MR. NORMAND: I want to mark that declaration as an exhibit. And it's been marked as Exhibit 1060.

(Plaintiff/Counterclaim-Defendant's Exhibit No. 1060 was marked for identification.)

BY MR. NORMAND:

Q. The signature line of the declaration is dated November 8th, 2006, with your signature.

Did you execute this document on that date?

A. Yes, I did.

Q. And this was the declaration you executed after the process that you described to Mr. Jacobs earlier; is that right?

A. That's correct.

Q. How did that process compare to the process by which you executed your IBM declaration?

A. This process was much more friendly, less

6

Page 121

adversarial, and did not seem to have an overt agenda to establish certain points.

Q. Have you had occasion to read Exhibit 1060 in the recent past?

A. Yes, I have.

Q. Is there any language in the exhibit that does not reflect your -- doesn't accurately reflect your views of the issues that are addressed therein?

A. I don't believe so.

Q. I wanted to direct your attention, Mr. Bouffard, to paragraph 29.

A. Okay.

Q. You see in the first paragraph, "Although I did not negotiate the 1995 Asset Purchase Agreement APA for Novell, I had an understanding of the transaction given my job responsibilities at the time, which involved selling UNIX products. My understanding was that Novell sold its UNIX business to Santa Cruz lock, stock and barrel, and Novell only retained the right to continue receiving binary royalties paid by then-existing UNIX licensees for their distribution of binary products based on their UNIX flavor pursuant to their UNIX sublicensing agreements (the binary royalty stream)." End quote.

Do you see that paragraph?

7


  


Declaration of Brent Hatch in SCO v IBM | 94 comments | Create New Account
Comments belong to whoever posts them. Please notify us of inappropriate comments.
Corrections here
Authored by: MathFox on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 09:43 AM EST
For another interim editor ;-)

---
If an axiomatic system can be proven to be consistent and complete from within
itself, then it is inconsistent.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Off-topic here, please
Authored by: overshoot on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 09:51 AM EST
Clicky HTML is so good ...

[ Reply to This | # ]

OK, so where's the beef?
Authored by: OmniGeek on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 10:05 AM EST
[Thanks to all involved for the preparation and posting of this material.]

Sooo, what we have here, submitted as apparently-important new material by SCO's
counsel, is the recollections of a salesman who was not involved with the
SCO/Novell asset purchase on what was purchased. He wasn't involved in the
negotiations, and he's not a contracts expert but a salesman, and so his opinion
on exactly what the contract said and precisely what was transferred is worth
what, exactly? Less than a plugged nickel, even in today's metals market,
methinks...

---
My strength is as the strength of ten men, for I am wired to the eyeballs on
espresso.

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Not to mention - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 03:24 PM EST
Declaration of Brent Hatch in SCO v IBM
Authored by: jmc on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 10:05 AM EST

Although I did not negotiate the 1995 Asset Purchase Agreement APA for Novell, I had an understanding of the transaction

Relevance = nil. SCO are scraping the bottom of the barrel here.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Declaration of Brent Hatch in SCO v IBM
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 10:43 AM EST
Who is this Mr.Jacobs?
I didn't see him on the list of SCO attorneys.

[ Reply to This | # ]

It was not written by me....It was provided to me,
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 10:49 AM EST


This is pathetic. Lawyering at it's lowest.

What next? Ask the janitor if the toilet was clean when the agreement was
drafted?

Nothing to see here. Move along people.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Seem to be an attempt to undermine IBM
Authored by: rsteinmetz70112 on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 11:08 AM EST
This seems to be an attempt to undermine IBM. What relevance the opinion of
someone not involved in the negotiation has is beyond understanding.

I don't believe most of what people tell, not because they are untruthful, but
because most people are not careful in their thinking, especially about things
of tangential importance.


---
Rsteinmetz - IANAL therefore my opinions are illegal.

"I could be wrong now, but I don't think so."
Randy Newman - The Title Theme from Monk

[ Reply to This | # ]

Salesman's word over a contract?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 11:31 AM EST
Ok, so the salesman's word is to be believed over the contract details.

What happened to "sucker born every minute" and all the usual stuff
about salesmen promising the world then delivering nothing like what was
promised.

Anyone who has ever bought a car/computer/HDTV any expensive item is going to
know that what the salesman knows/offers/promises is far from the actual deal
when you finally sign the paperwork.

I don't think SCO's work here will yield anything usable even in front of a
jury. Or perhaps especially in front of a jury if IBM can work it right.

Q: What rights were you selling?
Q: Were you aware AT&T/BSD had basically made all that code public?
Q: In light of the fact all the code was public what could you acutally have
been selling?

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Actually - Authored by: cricketjeff on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 11:50 AM EST
    • Actually - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 12:35 PM EST
    • Actually - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 01:14 PM EST
Who is Who
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 12:48 PM EST

Normand - SCO attorney
Jacobs - Novel attorney

(just so others don't have to go looking)

[ Reply to This | # ]

  • Correction - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 01:34 PM EST
  • Who is Who - Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 01:48 PM EST
"...lock, stock and ...."
Authored by: webster on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 01:00 PM EST
.

Q. ....upon further reflection, Mr. Bouffard, would you agree that copyrights
weren't in the barrell?

MR. NORMAND: Objection to form.

THE WITNESS: Wha...?



---
webster

[ Reply to This | # ]

Declaration of Brent Hatch in SCO v IBM
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 01:19 PM EST
Well, it's not what I meant but I signed
it on penalty of perjury to make them quit bothering me.
You know how these things go. They just keep pestering you, bringing you a
statement and wanting you to actually sign it. I mean, I could understand how
they thought I said that, but really that's not really what I meant. The other
guys were much more friendly, I liked them better.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Was this filed in time?
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 01:41 PM EST
According to the date next to Mr. Hatch's signatur, this was executed February
28, 2007, which was yesterday, the day before the hearing for the various PSJ
motions. This is a supplementary declaration in support of SCO's motions on the
various PSJ's. Isn't this a little late to be filing something like this? Wasn't
there a deadline that had already passed?

[ Reply to This | # ]

Being Cynical for One Moment
Authored by: sproggit on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 02:19 PM EST
A point that struck me as odd came when the Counsel for TSG asked the witness to
compare and contrast the style of the TSG interview with that of IBM.

The answer is interesting for several reasons.

Firstly, it's important to TSG because it adds that
smoke-and-mirrors-and-innuendo to the idea that somehow, IBM had pulled some
inappropriate move on this witness. Because they had an "agenda".
Obviously, it couldn't possibly be that IBM had a specific set of facts they
wished to establish, and in the quiet, efficient and methodical style we've come
to see from CSM, simply went about asking the questions they needed to obtain
the information they sought.

Secondly - and to my mind more importantly - is the language being used.
"Adversarial" is an odd choice of words. Remember, this witness is a
salesman. Not a legal expert, not a lawyer. If a "regular Joe" were
asked to describe a situation like that, what words do you think they might use?
Hostile maybe? Or confrontational? Perhaps even aggresive. Each of these would
be possible, I'd suggest. But "adversarial"?

I appreciate that in making this point I'm playing the same game as TSG, but I'd
have to venture the opinion that this word is probably associated more with
legal disputes than any other that could have been used. From this thin and
tenuous choice of vocabulary I would infer that this witness received some form
of pre-interview briefing, either from their own lawyer or from one of the BSF
crowd.

You could imagine how such a conversation or briefing went:

"Now this is a very simple and straightforward process that we're about to
do. We're going to ask you a few questions on these topics. For example, we'll
ask you about whether the interviews you've received to date have been relaxed
and comfortable, or more adversarial in nature...."

The witness doesn't realise it, but in their sub-conscious or semi-conscious
mind the word association is made. So when the question comes, the word pops
back out again, right where BSF want it. Done in a courtroom I think that's
known as leading a witness.

And yes, I'm being _incredibly_ cynical here.

But we have so many examples of SCO/BSF accusing IBM/CSM of one mis-deed or
another, whilst simultaneously commiting the very same act themselves.

Or maybe I'm paranoid as well as cynical.

As other observers have already posted, a jury should be carefully directed to
not place too much value or significance on what is at best a coincidental
witness. The problem is that juries are made up of human beings, and people
often remember implied or hinted facts/accusations as easily as proven points.
After a while it gets hard to distinguish between them.

[ Reply to This | # ]

Looks like "hearsay" to me
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 03:30 PM EST
And therefore not admissible as evidence.

All he says about Novell selling everything about Unix Sys V to (old)SCO is
hearsay. He never saw the contract.

"Objection your honor, this is hearsay!"
"Objection sustained! Please strike the statement off the record! Please
proceed with questioning Mr Boies!" :^)

[ Reply to This | # ]

Declaration of Brent Hatch in SCO v IBM
Authored by: Steve Martin on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 04:18 PM EST
One thing that hits me reading this is that TSG is presenting a partial
transcript of a deposition taken in the Novell case to support their case
against IBM. Now, since IBM (obviously) did not have an attorney present at this
deposition to preserve any objections, can this filing be challenged by IBM as
inadmissible?


---
"When I say something, I put my name next to it." -- Isaac Jaffee, "Sports
Night"

[ Reply to This | # ]

Declaration of Brent Hatch in SCO v IBM
Authored by: Anonymous on Thursday, March 01 2007 @ 04:42 PM EST
Heh... so,
1) IBM had an agenda when deposing... (doesn't everyone?)
2) IBM didn't play buddy-buddy, but got down to business, probably in the
attempt to save everyone time and effort,
3) IBM submitted their understanding of his testimony, and then re-worked it
when it was found out that it didn't reflect his meaning (that to me indicates
that IBM's attornies were exhibiting integrity in attempting to ensure accuracy
in the statement)
4) testimony may be irrelevant as hear-say (IANAL, and haven't seen the whole
thing, so can't really comment with certainty)
5) deponent obviously has reduced his credibility because he signed what he now
decries as inaccurate
6) this is filed late, apparently

All of which amounts to a big "who cares?" as I see it.

As others have noted, SCO likes to whine about anything that an opponent does
that sounds like one of their own weak points. I've known people like this...
they don't often recognize their own character issues, and complain loudly when
someone else tries to usurp their own style... as if "that's my flaw, and
you can't use it too."

Of course, I don't know what IBM will do/say about this, if anything. It seems
self defeating to SCO, really, which earmarks it as another of their desparate
stretch attempts to survive these PSJs. I look forward to their response.

...D

[ Reply to This | # ]

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